226100 Bullies, 4189 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 21 to 30 of 35
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 123 4 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. ffsparky26 is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    57

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 6:38am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA/BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    There are schools like yours in every state that are exlusive to what you named. It doesn't prevent anything really IMO. If someone is going to nut up they will, regardless of credentials.


    I know give me time.
    It's really to cover our asses with respect to felons and firearms. We shoot regularly and it is a felony for a felon to be around firearms. It's not that we are teh deadly, it's that is teh illegal to have a felon around guns.

    The range that we shoot at requires a background check before you become a member for the very same reasons, it's illegal to have felons around guns. Even if you are a non felon with the gun and a felon is there, you both can face prosecution.

    The whole 9/11 attackers training is just one more reason to do the background check/creds requirement. It also weeds out the Nazi/Anti Government types becuase most of them can not or will not get a CCW permit/background check.
  2. MEGA JESUS-SAMA is offline
    MEGA JESUS-SAMA's Avatar

    **** you math class

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pirate Island
    Posts
    7,038

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 12:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, Ballet, Archery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. erki is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    15

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 12:46pm


     Style: (hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    How many instructors/school owners do background checks of a potential student's arrest record? I just ask this because, as we learn more and more effective ways to bust someone up, isn't there some responsibility to NOT teach thugs?
    Another reason why this is a bad idea - so a person with a criminal record should no longer be allowed to learn self defense? You would proactively discriminate against them because they have made mistakes in the past.
  4. kiaiki is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    556

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 1:22pm


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by erki
    Another reason why this is a bad idea - so a person with a criminal record should no longer be allowed to learn self defense? You would proactively discriminate against them because they have made mistakes in the past.
    Discrimination against thugs is not a crime (unlike race etc.). It's down to the instructor.

    This hot potato has been discussed recently on another thread, with a subltle difference:

    My view is that instructors should be checked out - especailly if they run kids classes. Many leisure centres here in the UK only check re. insurance etc. As a parent it may be assumed that your local Judo club based inside a sports/leisure centre willl have been checked out by someone. Wrong.

    Recently a swimming instructor in a lesiure centre near me was successfully prosecuted for touching up young girls. MA are also 'contact' activities and may well attract paedophiles etc. for that reason.

    As for checking out students, there are 2 issues:
    1. You must have an acceptable status for the police to agree to let you have such info.
    2. I don't know of any law restricting you from teaching MA to anyone, even a guy with a long rap sheet of violent behaviour.

    IMHO when I am the instrctor I would need a very good reason not to teach a person. If they prove to be unsuitable, it is down to me to exclude them. Having a criminal record, even for violence, would not deter me.

    If I was runnning a leisure centre I would have one eye on the potential for bad press and even litigation if it went tits up and the guy ends up in court teling the jury and the press how you taught him how to damage people.

    Tough call. I can only comment on my own experience which includes training with several guys with criminal records, PTSD (ex military Falklands) , depression etc etc. They ALL deserve the chance.
  5. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    W. Yorks, UK
    Posts
    5,018

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 1:51pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kiaiki
    As a parent it may be assumed that your local Judo club based inside a sports/leisure centre willl have been checked out by someone. Wrong.
    Where do you get this ****? All certified BJA and BJC judo coaches have background checks and undergo child protection training, and no BJA or BJC club (that's 99.99% of all judo clubs in the UK) is run without at least one certified coach.

    Maybe in some pretend wannabe crapanese jujutsu clubs the coaches are all pedos, but judo in the UK is very good in this regard, so yeah it's assumed because in the case of judo it's actually true.
  6. kiaiki is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    556

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 2:48pm


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Where do you get this ****? All certified BJA and BJC judo coaches have background checks and undergo child protection training, and no BJA or BJC club (that's 99.99% of all judo clubs in the UK) is run without at least one certified coach.

    Maybe in some pretend wannabe crapanese jujutsu clubs the coaches are all pedos, but judo in the UK is very good in this regard, so yeah it's assumed because in the case of judo it's actually true.
    Sorry, I may have picked the wrong MA as an example, as I am well out of date re. Judo. It was not intended as a slur on Judo per se, just a casual sloppy choice.

    However, my point is not that good style organisations do not conduct checks, but that parents may assume that it is ALWAYS the case when taking the kiddies along to a sports centre and placing kids in the hands of a stranger..

    IMHO an instructor who chooses such an affilation (BJA/BJC) is less likely to be a paedo. However, this is no guarantee, as the swimming coach I mentioned had national and Olympic coaching credentials. Still, the checks are a better than nothing.

    However, there are plenty of opportunities out there which require no such checks.

    I've mentioned this elsewhere as an example of how we may be duped by paedos:
    In 10 minutes on the internet you may become a Reverend of the Universal Life Church of California. Try it (www.ulc.org). The public has no way of evaluating this as anyone is legally able to use terms such as 'Reverend'. The gut reaction of parents is trust - and a few weeks ago one of these local 'Reverend' guys was prosecuted for paedophile crimes.

    I should have confined my remarks to the following:

    I know that UK leisure centres do not always check criminal records of clubs (or instructors) which book their venues. Strangely, whilst UK schools check all employed staff, if they bring in a specialist instructor, they tend to assume the sub-contracted employer has done checks, as this is what happens if they employ an agency teacher.

    I'm a bit sceptical of your 99.99% - do you have a source for this claim?

    I do know that many many gyms offer kickboxing with no checks and I know Aikido has no such formalisation of checks, as the BAB does not have anything like the coverage you claim for the BJA/BJC.

    What worries me most is the 'Little Dragons' classes which seem to be everywhere in my locality, mostly as you decribe, run by hybrid or fantasy 'budo' type organisations or McDojo 'life skills' leeches which market very aggressively. I know they are cretins as, when asked about Aikido, they state: 'Aikido, yeah we do that, weapons like nunchucks and stuff'. Personally, nun chucking is not my obsession.

    Coming back to the Op's topic: Does the BJA / BJC ever check on students or is that left to the individual club instructor?
    Last edited by kiaiki; 9/22/2007 3:42pm at .
  7. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    W. Yorks, UK
    Posts
    5,018

    Posted On:
    9/22/2007 5:52pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, my figure is pretty much pulled out of my ass too really, what I should've said is the vast majority. There are few independant judo clubs in the UK, and I doubt any of them meet in leisure centres (they'll be private dojos). The BJA in particular is quite a keen "unifying" body, to the extent that they're often portrayed as the bad guy. If you want your students to get any kind of recognition you have to at least be affiliated with them, which means... background checks.

    You're right though, your example was just a bit off. It is up to parents to ultimately be responsible for their child's safety and not just assume that all this stuff is done. How hard is it to ask a few simple questions?

    As for the checks on students, no it doesn't happen in judo (at least not that I'm aware, my secret identity as a criminal mastermind hasn't been revealed yet, so I presume not). Children and adults are usually trained seperately (even if they're in the same class) so that's not really an issue, and unlike say some esoteric forms of martial arts who spend their time punching the thin air, it does become apparent quite quickly that "several of the people in this room could pretty much rip my head off at will", so I'm sure that discourages any funny business.
  8. kiaiki is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    556

    Posted On:
    9/23/2007 4:20am


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Well, my figure is pretty much pulled out of my ass too really, what I should've said is the vast majority. There are few independant judo clubs in the UK, and I doubt any of them meet in leisure centres (they'll be private dojos). The BJA in particular is quite a keen "unifying" body, to the extent that they're often portrayed as the bad guy. If you want your students to get any kind of recognition you have to at least be affiliated with them, which means... background checks.

    You're right though, your example was just a bit off. It is up to parents to ultimately be responsible for their child's safety and not just assume that all this stuff is done. How hard is it to ask a few simple questions?

    As for the checks on students, no it doesn't happen in judo (at least not that I'm aware, my secret identity as a criminal mastermind hasn't been revealed yet, so I presume not). Children and adults are usually trained seperately (even if they're in the same class) so that's not really an issue, and unlike say some esoteric forms of martial arts who spend their time punching the thin air, it does become apparent quite quickly that "several of the people in this room could pretty much rip my head off at will", so I'm sure that discourages any funny business.
    Absolutely - it's pretty easy to get rid of idiots who want to misuse what they learn. Usually they are spotted within the first few lessons. I've only known a handful of talented martial artists who lasted long enough to abuse what they know with some success. One was thrown out (at 3rd Dan) for repeated damage to students, the others were usually drunk and decided they were good enough to take on the world (usually the world won).

    Mind you, it takes a lot of willpower to ignore the fact that you are on top of a gorgeous young 20-something model in 'tate shiho gatame', as happened to me once (sadly only once). But if you are dealing with kids that part of your brain has to be shut off. It's my guess that the paedophiles just can't do that.

    Off topic (sorry):
    As for the BJA, I can't remember the full details, but they seemed to be 'unifying' way back in the late 1960's / early 1970's when my Sensei, trained and graded in Japan, was told his grade was invalid etc etc. The BJA got a slap from whichever Japanese organisation validated their UK operation and he was admitted in a failry senior capacity.

    In those days, he used to teach jutsu applications, knife defence, katas etc. as well as plenty of core syllabus stuff and randori. The BJA seemed to want to stamp out all individuality. Once they were forced into recognising him as one of their most senior grades, he went on to teach until his death a couple of years ago. His name was Frank Smith and he often had a tiny but powerful instructor called Dave/Len Hutton with him. In those days, Bath Judo Club was BJA and there was another BJC club - they merged under a Sensei called Pete Thatcher.
    Last edited by kiaiki; 9/23/2007 4:52am at .
  9. Kid Miracleman is offline
    Kid Miracleman's Avatar

    Rowsdower!

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown!
    Posts
    3,249

    Posted On:
    9/23/2007 11:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: On Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What do you guys think of some of these guidelines from a NY Bujinkan school:

    Guidelines For Participation In The Bujinkan

    The Bujinkan shall be open to only those who agree with and uphold the guidelines of the Bujinkan Dojo. Those not doing so shall not be allowed to join. Specifically:

    1. Only those who have read and agreed with these guidelines shall be allowed to participate.

    2. Only those able to exercise true patience, self-control, and dedication shall be allowed to participate.

    3. A physician's examination report shall be required. Specifically, individuals with mental illness, drug addiction, or mental instability shall be barred from joining. The necessity of such a report concerns individuals who may present a danger to others, for example, those with infectious diseases or illnesses, individuals with clinically abnormal personalities or physiology, and individuals lacking self-control.

    4. Individuals with criminal records shall be turned away. Troublemakers, those who commit crimes, and those living in Japan who break domestic laws shall be turned away.

    5. Those not upholding the guidelines of the Bujinkan, either as practitioners or as members of society, by committing disgraceful or reproachable acts shall be expelled. Until now, the Bujinkan was open to large numbers of people who came to Japan. Among them, unfortunately, were those committing violent drunken acts, the mentally ill, and trouble makers who thought only of themselves and failed to see how their actions might adversely affect others. Through their actions, such people were discarding the traditional righteous heart of the Bujinkan. From this day forward, all such people shall be expelled.
    There are more guidelines, but I didn't think they pertained to this particular discussion.

    What do you guys think of the criminal record requirement? Do you think it's ethical (or for that matter, lawful)?
  10. JJson is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    68

    Posted On:
    9/23/2007 1:47pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    3. A physician's examination report shall be required. Specifically, individuals with mental illness, drug addiction, or mental instability shall be barred from joining. The necessity of such a report concerns individuals who may present a danger to others, for example, those with infectious diseases or illnesses, individuals with clinically abnormal personalities or physiology, and individuals lacking self-control.
    #3 on your list would probably be the first to get challeneged in court. It may violate the persons with disabilities act. Even if it is legal, why discriminate against the mentally ill. Would you discriminate against someone with a physical disability. MA can help people with depression or anxiety or other disorders.


    I'd never give my medical report to anyone. That is dumb. Insurance companies have a way of getting medical reports and using them to deny coverage. Did you see the dateline where a guy with a bump on his leg was denied coveage when they discovered it was cancerous. Turns out the guy had a mecial report 2 weeks before applying for coverage and the insurance company found out and got a copy and used it to deny coverage.
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 123 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.