Date of Birth
Do you know his exact date of birth and if it matches with the 1969 Hendon date of birth?
Conceals his true identity?
'TA stated during the meeting that .... he conceals his true identity...'
Does he conceal his true identity?
Or does this throw people of the scent of searching 'Tony Anthony' as his real name?
Tony went to jail in the UK 2000 - 2002. Under what name? A false one? Don't the Police check proof of identity before they imprison someone?
If Tony went to prison as Tony Anthony then he probably is Tony Anthony.
It is CRAZY logic to say you protect yourself from poor Chinese relatives by publishing an International selling book about winning 3 World Kung fu Championships after growing up in China with a Grandfather you name in the book as a famous Kung Fu Champion - and then publishing the book in China.
The 2000 conviction, the marriage certificate, the passport most likely show true and original details.
Why not ask Tony to scan and email you a copy of his passport and birth certificate - for everyone's sake?
If Tony is genuine he will do this, or agree to meet with some well known Church Leader or Martial Arts specialist and show them these documents.
Openess on his part will solve everything here
Most likely not i would say.
If his name was changed by deedpole he would have that name on his passport and his marriage certificate, im not sure how it works with birth certificates but i also know people that dont have their birth certificate (due to laziness in getting a copy) but get by with using passport, drivers licence and credit cards as ID.
My point being i dont think this will achieve anything so i personally wont be asking him to do this but TA does respond to respectfully put requests so anybody else is welcome to try.
Crazy logic, indeed and not the only place we have found such logic.
With regards the DOB, yes i do have the exact DOB, the archives however do not, they simply show births within a three month period so i havent been able to match it.
Responds to respectfully put requests?
As the DOB you have is the only Antonio Anthony that fits the three month period that could be TA. He may not have changed his name by deed pole. When did he do that - after he became a Christian? Unlikely - the Christian Faith has other ways of dealing with the past. It may be simpler than it seems. The name change story only applies if the life in China is true - and he doesn't speak Chinese...
How did you know it's North London or is that the only name that fits the DOB?
Responds to respectful questions? The CD's didn't do that according to this thread. I posted the questions I put to him at his request - no answer. The Publisher was promised answers on the Q&A - it didn't happen.
As far as there being nothing concrete to disprove his story - there's nothing concrete that proves it and much, much that does not add up.
This thread reads like a game of chess with TA.
Has he really paid someone to get him back in Wiki? Think about it - what would Wiki print? Controversial Claims with lack of evidence? Claims his real identity is hidden? Doesn't speak Chinese? A wiki entry would turn into the sort of challenges this thread presents him with.
If he told you he's paid someone and he hasn't then he's trying to keep a step ahead of the net that's closing in and using smoke screens, misinformation and confidence to get to where the hubub dies down.
Why would someone who claims to be an ambassador for the Truth play chess games with it?
I feel very sad for his family if there's no evidence behind his claims. Sad for his wife and children. Sad for him.
The Christian Faith has a new start for anyone coming clean with their past. That's all of us, including Tony - he's right there. But if his story is all concoted then I think he's playing with fire. it makes me think of the parable with the man who built his house on sand. When the storm came, the rivers rose, the winds howled and the house fell - and it fell big time.
I dont know, I think if it was done at all, it was when he came to england just before he met his wife.
Originally Posted by Concern
Thats just IMO , I will find out for sure.
It was in his book. True or not.
Originally Posted by Concern
He does respond, how much use the responce is varies.
Originally Posted by Concern
You've done well there Mr P.
When people make stuff up they often use a lot of true things they know about to keep themselves sane. If he's not telling the truth [ and if he is he's keeping some of it hidden by his words ] then North London is on balance likely to be true - more than 50% likely etc.
The answer may be simple - you may have Tony Antoni's mother - Margareta Petri Antoni - nee Foster, originally from Worthing(?).
If that's true anyone approaching her would need to be very sensitive and kind.
Perhaps finding her neighbours who've known the family over many years would bring it all out without even troubling her. a photo of Tony shown to neighbours would do it.
I've seen enough to know all is not well with the Taming the Tiger story.
Thank you, many here have. Still a little way to go yet.
Originally Posted by Concern
Im am trying to remain respectful in this situation but this is the difficulty I am having.
Originally Posted by Concern
People with no experience in martial arts , close protection are looking at this story and not realizing how spurious some of the claims appear to be .
For example, I spoke to my teacher about TA's claims , he is a Royce Gracie black belt, A Judo black belt and traditional Jujitsu black belt.
He laughed! (he has actually read the book and questioned it at the time)
I spoke to a couple of international bodyguard organizations as i believe others have about TA's claims.
Today I spoke to an Ex CID officer who is a friend of one of my business partners about TA's claims.
Guess what he did?
That's very interesting and very well explained.
I don't know the bodyguard and Martial Arts community, or not much - but I've been struck by the clear and clean way MA people on this thread are unimpressed with TA - and prepared to give him a fair chance to explain.
I do know the Christian Community that TA now travels in. The teaching materials TA uses with an explanation that he devised them are excellent and there are true and dramatic conversion stories. One, 'The Cross and the Switchblade' based in New York, is studied at GCSE level. All those involved, including relatives in Puerto Rico have been avaialble for scrutiny etc - everything checks out etc.
When I heard TA I had misgivings about the 'tests' he passed etc but the teaching materials and then telling about the fatal accident, his covering up and then going to jail seemed very painfully 'honest'. As you say, for people who know little about MA, it's quite a package. And he's come and gone from an area quickly often.
There are some very questionable people out there preaching what's called 'The Prosperity Gospel' - 'sow money by sending it to me and you will reap wealth from God.' That sort of stuff is fairly easily spotted if someone has a hear to spot it. But TA doesn't preach that stuff. Money, Sex and Power are the classic things that Christians, like others, fall for.
I think TA is complicated and I'm still open that things that seem false turn out to be true. One major response of Christians to possible or probable corruption is to leave it to God to deal with it, to 'not judge/condemn' and wait until God makes everything clear.
I'm open to the possibility that He is using this thread, and it's contributors to do that.
Watched Youtube of Tony Anthony
After watching I wonderd why it's Greek he speaks well and not Chinese.
At one point TA described his wife as his first love.
He describes, as a bodyguard breaking more arms and legs than he could describe and killing numerous people while the Saudi Ambassador was underfire.
Alcapone, in jail for rape and murder is regularly maiming and killing people in prison. It made me wonder if a prison in Cyprus would be that inefficient? Wouldn't any prison isolate such a man?
Tony said the Cyprus Newspapers were full of Tony's story and that's how Michael Wright heard of him. I can't do it but the Newspapers for that time could be checked.
And if his story hit the news, surely the Alcapone he says was there at the same time would have too? Alcapone's murder and rape is more serious than TA's assault and theft. [I know that according to this thread the only publicly reported conviction for murder and rape by an Alcapone was a year or so after TA was back in England].
It does all have the 'sound' of easy exaggeration. It's LOTS incidents of people being maimed, killed, Saudi Ambassador being protected more than once,while under fire, and protected by killing the assailant. Easy to say, sounds like the action films.
If a Saudi Ambassador to England was fired on and someone was killed there would have been an International response - was the assailant an Israeli? Western? Islamic Extremist? Was it justified to kill him? This would have hit the news with dangers of an International incident.
Newspaper article: Blogger coalition exposes Speaker
A Baptist minister who toured the USA to talk about his conversion from Islam to Christianity is no longer the dean of Liberty University's theological seminary following allegations he fabricated or embellished facts about his past, the school said Friday. The university founded by Rev. Jerry Falwell said that a board of trustees committee concluded Ergun Caner made contradictory statements. Although it didn't find evidence that he was not a Muslim who converted as a teenager, it did discover problems with dates, names and places he says he lived, a statement said.
Caner will remain on the Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary faculty, but won't be dean when his term expires on June 30.
"Caner has cooperated with the board committee and has apologized for the discrepancies and misstatements that led to this review," the school said.
A phone number listed for Caner in Lynchburg, where Liberty is located, was not in service.
An unlikely coalition of Muslim and Christian bloggers, pastors and apologists led the charge to investigate the preacher with video and audio clips they claim show Caner making contradictory statements.
Caner has been a celebrity in evangelical Christianity since 2001, when he and his brother began appearing on news shows and other venues to discuss Islam in the aftermath of 9/11.
The author and charismatic speaker became dean of the seminary at Liberty in 2005. Since then, enrollment has roughly tripled to around 4,000 students.
He told The Associated Press in 2002 that he was born in Sweden to a Turkish father and Swedish mother, who brought the family to Ohio in 1969, when he was about 3 years old. He said he accepted Christ as a teenager at a Baptist church in Columbus, and then pursued ministry, getting a degree from Criswell College, a Baptist school in Dallas.
Since questions arose about contradictory, he changed the biographical information on his website and asked friendly organizations to remove damning clips from their websites. But the questions didn't go away, leading to the Liberty investigation.
While few doubt that Caner was raised as a Muslim, they question changing biographical details in his speeches and whether he was a believer to the extent he told audiences.