Southend-on-Sea, England: Kung Fu master Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries

**Mackan** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 8:00am

Originally Posted by ladidada

Hey,

Tony Anthony will be on live on Genesis TV (Sky 592) this Wednesday @ 9pm to 10.30pm I believe. It is a Christian channel which broadcasts in the UK and possibly elsewhere.

GMT? CET?

It looks like you can follow this on the net as well - http://www.revelationtv.com/watchgen.php

Can someone set up a stream capture or some such?

**madmonkey** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 10:22am

Originally Posted by ladidada

Hey,

Tony Anthony will be on live on Genesis TV (Sky 592) this Wednesday @ 9pm to 10.30pm I believe. It is a Christian channel which broadcasts in the UK and possibly elsewhere.

During the show you can call to speak to whichever guest is on or send in txt or email which the presenter will read out.

If you are nice and respectful I would imagine you may get a few of your questions answered especially if you phone-in/email en masse.

Thank you as this will hopefully provide an opportunity to actually question Tony without allowing him the chance to prepare answers as much.

Originally Posted by ladidada

I am open minded about Tony, when I see him speak I believe him but there are as you mention discrepancies.

you are entitled to your belief but bear in mind a lot of these go beyond discrepancy into fantasy if they are false or into serious crimes if they are true.

Originally Posted by ladidada

What he is doing appears to be positive, my only worry is that people who hear him and are convicted by his words may lose faith when they encounter sites such as this which rip apart his testimony.

GOOD, If you love and believe in god you do not lie to promote or display your faith as it undermines the perception and foundation of that belief, if you use a lie to display /promote your faith then your faith is probably a lie as well.

If his testimony can be "ripped apart" by people who are asking simple questions and pointing out the planet size "discrepencies" in his story, questions and discrepencies that he has not been able to explain in a complete, coherent and proveable way then his testimony is false.

We are not debating the existence of GOD here, these are things that he could tangible prove without much difficulty. So why hasn't he, surely by proving beyond any doubt the truth of his story he adds far more credibility and believability to his own redemption.

At the moment he is relying on peoples kindness and good grace to accept his story as truth, when anyone with any martial arts knowledge can see it at best only partially true and at worst a big fat lie.

Originally Posted by ladidada

Give him a chance; none of us are sure and on that basis he is innocent until proven guilty. As he is not hurting anyone but rather, from what we can see, aiming to help and encourage I think it is reasonable to go easy.
B

He is hurting alot of people if they are coming to God through his story as it is a lie. Redemption is a powerful gift but in a christian sense, ie before the eyes of god, it has to be based on total and impartial honesty.

**ladidada** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 2:58pm

Originally Posted by overseas

Look, I am a Christian in Eastern Europe. Tony story is too spectacular and messy to treat it easy. He was asked for proof many times. His tactics was to: reduce his claims (not anymore '3x world kung fu champion' but a garage fighter etc) and even showing availability to modify the next editions of his books (to avoid contradictions !). Besides, for a murderer like him (based on his testimony) the right Christian attitude would be to surrender and serve time in jail, not become a showman.

I have not kept up with the latest issues in terms of dealing with the authenticity of the book so when you say "too spectacular" there may be some things I'm missing.

Some of the things which I have already seen mentioned are a bit suspect.

I actually contacted Tony and he mentioned several things which could explain some issues regarding verfiability: his real name is not Tony Anthony but due to death threats from family in China he changed some personal details about himself and others in order to protect their identity also, in addition to this he added that there are many different types of world championships in kung fu which would makes things complicated (i'm paraphrasing).

My personal thoughts are that if he were lying what would be the purpose. The experience he writes about happened almost 18 years ago during which time he claims to have been evangelising. Why would the evangelism come before the get rich quick scheme, if what he is doing is even profitable.

If Tony were to be lying in my view he has not been born again as someone who has would not purposely set out to deceive and live in that lie. He couldn't really know Christ and live in sin.

But I remember the Pharisees and how misguided their approach was and I don't want to be like that, if Tony is true he is doing a good job.

"No. Good people don't create huge lies. Good people make mistakes. Yes, there is a difference."

I am not saying that if he were lying it would be okay just because he either had good intentions or the end result was good. If it were a lie, I believe it would all be a lie, a fraud rather than a short sighted mistake to win others for Christ. My thoughts are that his actions appear to be good and I think he might be telling the truth.

I do recall him saying the book were being made into a movie, in which case I'm sure there would be a great deal of scutiny over his story considering what's happened in the past with the likes of James Frey etc.

B

**ladidada** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 3:19pm

Originally Posted by overseas

Look, I am a Christian in Eastern Europe. Tony story is too spectacular and messy to treat it easy. He was asked for proof many times. His tactics was to: reduce his claims (not anymore '3x world kung fu champion' but a garage fighter etc) and even showing availability to modify the next editions of his books (to avoid contradictions !). Besides, for a murderer like him (based on his testimony) the right Christian attitude would be to surrender and serve time in jail, not become a showman.

I have not kept up with the latest issues in terms of dealing with the authenticity of the book so when you say "too spectacular" there may be some things I'm missing.

Some of the things which I have already seen mentioned are a bit suspect.

I actually contacted Tony and he mentioned several things which could explain some issues regarding verfiability: his real name is not Tony Anthony but due to death threats from family in China he changed some personal details about himself and others in order to protect their identity also, in addition to this he added that there are many different types of world championships in kung fu which would makes things complicated (i'm paraphrasing).

My personal thoughts are that if he were lying what would be the purpose. The experience he writes about happened almost 18 years ago during which time he claims to have been evangelising. Why would the evangelism come before the get rich quick scheme, if what he is doing is even profitable.

If Tony were to be lying in my view he has not been born again as someone who has would not purposely set out to deceive and live in that lie. He couldn't really know Christ and live in sin.

But I remember the Pharisees and how misguided their approach was and I don't want to be like that, if Tony is true he is doing a good job.

"No. Good people don't create huge lies. Good people make mistakes. Yes, there is a difference."

I am not saying that if he were lying it would be okay just because he either had good intentions or the end result was good. If it were a lie, I believe it would all be a lie, a fraud rather than a short sighted mistake to win others for Christ. My thoughts are that his actions appear to be good and I think he might be telling the truth.

I do recall him saying the book were being made into a movie, in which case I'm sure there would be a great deal of scutiny over his story considering what's happened in the past with the likes of James Frey etc.

B

**Yoj** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 3:23pm

I want an IP check please.

**madmonkey** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 3:38pm

ladidada, 20 pages of similar time wasting have just been culled. Present credible arguments backed up with evidence rather than the unsubstantiated CONVENIENT excuses presented by TA, or simply stop posting.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 4:12pm

Wait Wait Wait Wait. He changed his name and details due to death threats but, parades around on TV?

I actually contacted Tony and he mentioned several things which could explain some issues regarding verfiability: his real name is not Tony Anthony but due to death threats from family in China he changed some personal details about himself and others in order to protect their identity also.

This is why people, especially religious fanatics, get so much ****. If I'm trying to hide, I am not running around telling key points of my story. If I do my voice is changed I'm in a bland room, and there are shadows. No, a face change and body sculpting will not change the stories.

edit: .....and what madmonkey just posted.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 4:40pm

I think what needs to be addressed at the moment is that TA is going to be on TV and will be expected to take and answer questions. What better venue could we have for someone to call in who doesn't really speak English very well and request that TA answer a question put to him in Cantonese or Mandarin. Not only would he have to answer it but translate it as well.

We need to find someone to call in on this immediately.

**stephenprunetti** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 6:19pm

Just for the record.

This morning, i spoke to the guy at Genesis TV who is going to interview Tony Anthony tomorrow. Just to make him aware of the concerns that many people have about Mr Anthony's story.

I pointed him in the direction of the Bullshido thread.

I'm not holding out any hope here. There's too many people willing to over-ride their critical faculty when it comes to Tony's cloud-cuckoo story.

I think it was Mr P, who said a few posts back, it's no longer about Tony, it's about his audience. I agree whole-heartedly.

**Yoj** · Posted On: 1/19/2010 6:36pm

Originally Posted by stephenprunetti

I'm not holding out any hope here. There's too many people willing to over-ride their critical faculty when it comes to Tony's cloud-cuckoo story.

I think it was Mr P, who said a few posts back, it's no longer about Tony, it's about his audience. I agree whole-heartedly.

Very true, let's say I convince my wife to phone in and ask him what his favourite hotpot ingredients are, which she probably won't because she'll think I'm nuts, anyway, she rings and asks him. he fails to answer, looks embarrassed for a moment smiles, says thanks, the producers move on, he then claims that he didn't understand because it was a very difficult dialect, probably from "insert x here" and then says even though the language is called the same, there are many dialects even in the same language, and a lot of people from different areas can't understand each other, after all, cantonese is a colloquial language, so differs by region. The audience buy it, and don't see an issue with it, because, the odds are, they already want to believe, and he bluffs through it.

To an extent, that would even be true, cantonese betweens regions does vary, my wife is always complaining the mainland cantonese speaking chinese have bad cantonese, that's because it does change quickly, as its only really a spoken language, and regional variations occur easily.

It would mean something if he understood nothing, to us, but his larger audience, wouldn't think it out of place in the slightest, and as per his supporters here, will still believe him unless firm proof was offered, they don't care the burden of proof is of course on TA himself.