His answer to number 3 was ridiculous and drawn out. I saw a simlair answer to a problem given on "The West Wing" television drama years ago and written much better I might add.
TA schedule for jan feb 2010 Scotland
"Kung Fu" was the name of TV series in 1972, It is felt that this is the inspiration for Tony Anthony's fantasy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)
2 minutes in to the opening scene he carries a hot cauldron with a dragon on one side and a tiger on the other. Sound familiar??
I have documents hand written and signed by Tony himself filed at companies house when Avante Ltd was formed (available to anybody for £1 each direct from companies house download) On one document he states his birth year 1969 and another 1971.
On the very first document of incorporation he states his occupation as "Insurance Broker".
I think that the key lies in his original name and his former job as an insurance broker.
If we can find out his original name (ive done some digging and im not convinced the one on the previous page is correct) and where he used to work we can start to find our about what he was reall y up to between 1969/71 - 2002.
TA supporters in Romania
I received a no-surprise answer from a Romanian Christian blogger that presented a TA event. At my suggestion, the blogger inquired directly a firiend of him, that promoted TA in Romania. The promoter knows TA personally, met the missionary that converted Tony (M Wright probably) and saw the prison release document. The promoter also fed us the usual TA response about illegal fights, confidentiality, TA not being the real name, that giving details would jeopardise Tony etc. In a nutshell, everybody is happy about TA story.
In my opinion, nobody should be happy because TA should either:
1. prove his story OR
2. withdraw his book and retract his claims
Some people here doubt that we can prove something beyond any doubt. In my opinion, we should not prove anything more than that. Raising so many warning red flags should be enough for discerning people. After you have done such a hard work about TA story, it is not anymore about TA but about his audience.
OK - I have a few questions, after having read "Taming the Tiger".
In pages 94-96 the writer claims that TA was in Stockholm and arrested, because:
"I should have known from my studies in criminal law that it is illegal to use martial arts in some countries" (p 94) "It is not legal to use martial arts in this country." (p 95).
This is simply not the case. Nödvärnslagen ("Defense in case of emergency law", roughly) specifically states that any force (violence) necessary to stop a crime and/or defend oneself or someone else is allowed. There is even a paragraph on "exessive force", which gives some extra leeway if the situation is such that it is "hard to judge" from the defender's point of view.
This should be known to his law student girl friend, whom he visits when this happen.
The whole story rings false on some other details as well.
First, that the police didn't speak English. I mean, in order to be admitted to the Police school, you would need to have graduated with a "passed" grade or above in english from Gymnasium. That means that you have studied English for a minimum of nine years when entering Police training. (Most police officers also speak a third language or more. Most people in Sweden, regardless of police training, have studied at least two foreign languages in school. Many have studied three.)
Secondly - timing. I mean, if the police is coming to break it up, how long did the fight really take? Granted, this MIGHT have happened just next door to a local police station...
Now - I see two possible explanations for this. The whole thing took place somewhere completely different and TA is placing it in Sweden in order to protect the real identities of those involved. OR it didn't happen at all.
EDIT: Oh, and I used the Google Books version to come up with the page numbers, if anyone is interested.
Last edited by Mackan; 1/02/2010 1:55pm at .
Hey - just because I don't have too much else to do... Two more inconsistencies in Tony's book "Taming the Tiger". Again, from the version online at Google Books.
p.9 The author describes a terrible act of violence on one of the fellow inmates of TA. Ending with "It was just another day at Nicosia Central Prison". - Nicosia Central Prison has not been in use as a correctional facility since 1955. There is a prison in Nicosia, by another name, though. No idea wether it is called (by the inmates) "Nicosia Central Prison".
p97 - "A beer at 5.000 Lira or a bottle of champagne at 12.000. Then you get the girl." - This was back in 1990 (roughly) and I was in Italy back then for vacation. If memory serves, this is like a beer for 2.50 EUR (roughly 3 bucks) or the champagne AND girl for 6 EUR (just under 8 bucks). Nice place...
I know I am being silly, but...
Terrafirma - I read the book and a few red flags came up when I did, that wasn't really MA-related (I wasn't into MA myself back then). I read it first in Swedish (since I know the guy who got the gig to translate it), and later I checked out the video on YouTube and have re-read the parts of the book that are online on Google books.
And I know that one might say here that
1) I only read a translation and that might introduce errors in itself
2) I only read PARTS of the book from the original, thus not getting the full picture
3) The videos contains more info on some parts and less on some and are not fully the same story as the book. And the book is the correct version.
OK - assuming all of the above is correct, I still had quite a few issues with the book (and not really concerning Tony as a Matrial Artist.)
1) Placing of a Shaolin temple in the Guangdong province (Tony says his great grandfather fled to Canton, and later his grandfather is introduced to the triads as from being from Canton). Tony says he is clothed in yellow robes and brought to the local shaolin temple, age 4.
2) White tiger (that no-one else but Tony has reported/seen), again in the same region. This is so rare, in fact, that it borders to believable. The same tigress let him "tickle her like a house cat". - I guess that this is not totally, utterly impossible but very , very improbable.
3) IKFF - the International Kung Fu Federation - does not seem to exist, or at least did not exist when this was supposed to have happened. A martial arts federation that also doubles as a body guard company is... .. well, "rare" is an understatement. "Unheard of" is more like it.
4) 1987 He meets with Aiya in London. She is swedish. "Three years later" he visits her in Sweden, gets arrested for the fist time since he claims Aiya tells him "it is not legal to use martial arts in this country".
Not only is this false. Aiya is a law student (told elsewhere in the book). She knows that this is not true. The law in Sweden is clear that it is use force/violence to protect oneself or ones property or to hinder crime. Not a word is said, specifically, on martial arts. Hindering the assault rape here is not anything TA would be arrested for.
But the police here are, obviously not, Swedish policemen. Swedish police men must be fluent in English in order to get the job. (They have to have studied it for at least 9 years in school and passed with merit).
But there is actually another story here as well - assault rape is not a very common crime in Sweden. This supposedly took place somewhere in Stockholm (or thereabouts). I know Stockholm. I come from Stockholm. Oh - and crime statistics are public here...
So I did a search on assault rape, Stockholm, 1990 and came up with something like 35 cases. None of which where the Police had come and made an arrest on site. All the assault rape cases from Stockholm that year were (sadly) reported to the police after the incident. Not a single case was reported, where the police had come on site, as the crime was happening. (Yes. I had this double checked.)
5) "Nicosia central prison" is the name of the old prison, not longer in use when Tony was supposedly jailed. There are correctional facilities in Nicosia, but with another name. Not a biggie, I guess, but...
To this one can add the rather... eh... strange martial arts related stuff. Like the branding with the dragon and the tiger on the forearms, the almost superhuman tasks (Tony reportedly goes to a bar and beats up a lot of people when Aiya is dead, he stands in horse stance for hours on end, he becomes the world champion of Kung Fu, etc.)
The problem with these later claims is that it is easy for TA to just say "Well, that is all behind me now, and I don't want to talk about it any more", without giving any proof (or even clue) to wether they are true.
I must ask UK bullies, though... It is possible to get a birth certificate of Tony? He was, he claims, born in England. A certificate would yield some info on his parents, if one would want to continue that path. Just a thought.
Now - just to finish.
I don't need to make this a personal crusade. I read the book, I felt there were inconsitencies and I bothered to check a few of them up. But I won't go into a huge investigation on this.
My own, personal, view is that I wasted a few hours on reading a false testimony. Aw shucks. That happens. And it is somewhat irritating for me, who kinda like personal testimonies. Yup, I'm a christian.
I am not going to go into a hair splitting, dragged out debate on every one of my points here. They are more than "resonable doubt" for me as to if TAs story holds water. It doesn't.
Had TA been living in Sweden and been an active evangelist here, I might have put more effort into "exposing" him. Those of you who feel that urge, please do. I think that peer review and public scrutiny is a good thing.
Those who think that "well - there must be some sort of misunderstanding here" or "well, the devil is in the details, but on the whole..." must soon start to stack up some evidence for themselves. Or start to lie to themself really hard, in order to maintain that belief.
To each his/her own.
Good luck, all.
Opened up again:
Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries derail - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Use the trollshido thread to request legit posts are moved back.
Last edited by It is Fake; 1/17/2010 8:02pm at .
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