First LARPing, now Mandancing!

[bushi_no_ki]

Actually, I see this as having a valid point. Mandancing could refer to Tai Chi practitioners who think that the old person's fitness class is actual MA. I differentiate between Martial Art, Martial Sport, Martial Dance, and Fighting System.

[Wounded Ronin]

I'd agree that most kata can be seen essentially, at best, as cultural dance. But it's not particularly funny or clever to use the term "mandancing"; as others have pointed out lots of women do kata as well.

[tyciol]

I like that essay you quoted Deadmeat. Also, the Muay Thai pre-fight dance ritual was cool to watch since I've never seen one of those in full. The wrestling one didn't seem to have much dancing though, if that's what the hundreds of guys on the field were doing ahead of time.

[SWEHurricane]

I think there is a significant difference between bad martial arts (man dancing) and LARPing. You can do an ineffective martial art without being a LARPer - for example, aikido - if you take it for exercise and know what you are getting, you aren't pretending to be something you are not. That is man dancing. LARPing has mre to do with believing that your recreational martial arts makes you something more than a hobbyist (trained killer, ninja, samurai, whatever).

Some of what you said is spot on. I think it's pathetic that some people call themselves "warriors" just because they study theoretical combat. Sure you can aspire to gain some of the values that are the same as the warriors that developed the system strived to gain through their training. But that dosen't make you a "warrior, ninja samurai, whatever".

That's what I like with the word "LARP", it's a good term to describe this. But on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with trying to gain the values and skills of the people that developed the MA that you train, it's one of the biggest reasons people choose TMA. TMA is not LARP by default. And when you think of it, every effective MA in the world was developed by these kinds of people at some point.

Also, when you say Aikido. I don't agree. It's maybe not your best choice if you want to become a badass fighter. But it can teach you alot of great stuff.

[SWEHurricane]

I think Phrost is on to something here. If you strip away the actual fighting aspect of a martial art, it is a form of dancing, after a fashion. A performance only martial art like the choreographed wu shu you see in movies comes to mind. That being said, someone with a serious background in dance or gymnastics is going to have a lot of attributes that could be useful in a martial setting: balance, flexibility, strength, endurance, timing, body control/awareness, footwork, etc.

Edit: Well, I gather that the premise was that "man-dancing" is a better descriptor than "LARPing" for pretend martial artists. I guess I would have to disagree. I could see where "man-dancing" could have negative connotations in certain situations, but not in general. I have a lot of respect for the athleticism of dancers.

I agree. But there is also a huge difference in purpose. Just as there is more to dancing than choreography, there is more to for instance kata or shadowboxing than choreography. If the word "Aliveness" wasn't already taken, I would use it to describe what I mean.

Most beginners we get around here have a hard time understanding the difference between technique and chorepraphy. For example:

Instructor shows technique - student does the same moves as the instructor -

Student: "Ok, I have learned this now, what's next...?"

I can't really describe this better, anyone get what I'm trying to say?

I have seen tons of high ranked people in the Bujinkan (as an example) train people in what basically is choreography. The instructor basically stands there and demonstrates technique after technique. He may be good, but how does he expect his students to learn? This is what I would like to call "Mandancing", and it's the opposite of everything Hatsumi is trying to tell us.

Now what I don't like about the phrase, is that it feels like an insult to dancers.