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  1. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Is soy killing me?

    I know it will make me gay and all, but does anyone have any good moderately intelligent info on the dangers/benefits of soy? Most of the articles I have found have been rabidly pro or con.

    I started drinking muscle milk light shakes with soy milk and then people started getting me worried about soy. I can't drink 16ox a day of regular milk cuz I'd probably vomit or poop it all out. I think water + muscle milk is a form of torture, though self-inflicted i don't want the UN chasing my ass down and giving me a strong warning.

    Any Ideas?
  2. The_Tao is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:13pm


     Style: Proudly Shaolin Do.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any Ideas?

    go eat real meat, then do push ups
  3. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:14pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most of the negative material on soy tends to come from some pretty dubious sources. While I'd keep an eye out on the more serious clinical trials I'd look a bit fuzzy at the folks who got their degrees from online colleges who are pushing self-published books.

    I've been more of a whey protein consumer of late, but it has little to do with the Soy Hysteria. I simply fint it more convenient and in better flavor options.

    As far as Muscle Milk goes, how different is the "light" version from the regular? I remember looking at the nutritional information on one of them once and was stunned at the levels of fat, etc. it contained. are you drinking them as a major caloric source or simply for the sake of protein?
  4. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:17pm


     Style: jkd

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've heard whey is better, but I also wouldn't buy into the extreme anti-soy propaganda.
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the Tao,
    i eat real meat. And my hand is broken so i can't do pushups. ;)


    Fitz,
    I drink the light because I don't need that much fat/calories from food. I eat meat only about once a day. The muscle milk helps before and after workouts. The taste is nice. The fat is low. I think it was like 600kcal for the full version versus 195 for the light. i am trying for the 40/40/20 ratio. With the peanut butter and nuts and meat, the fat can get kind of high.

    Most of the soy stories are crazed. You can be rational all you want, but you start to get worried after a bit.

    Iron,
    the soy is just to make the muscle milk go down nicer.
  6. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:35pm


     Style: jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Iron,
    the soy is just to make the muscle milk go down nicer.
    I use soy milk in my shakes as well. This guy debunks some of the hysteria:

    Now to address the myth that Soy may lower testosterone levels in males. One study that used Rhesus monkeys found that soy proteins had no effects on the reproductive hormones of these animals. Testosterone, DHEAS, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), testicular weight, prostatic weight, and other measurements were taken. They found no difference in hormonal changes between male animals who were given Soy and Egg protein.


    Now, the next statement should catch the attention of all the bodybuilders with very slow metabolisms, such as myself. Soy Protein Isolate has been proven to raise thyroid output in humans. The intake of various high quality proteins has been associated with higher levels of thyroid hormone, but soy appears to have thyroid hormone raising abilities unique to that of other proteins. While this is still being researched, and is not known for sure, Soy Protein Isolate may increase output of the T4 hormone. This is the hormone that declines greatly after being on a reduced calorie diet for a while.

    http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/todd12.htm

    Compare to the hysteria:

    The studies that supposedly prove that infants on soy formula develop normally consider only height, weight and other measurements of growth as measured in infancy and early childhood. Many of the negative effects don't become obvious until puberty. Think about that next time you walk through the locker room at the gym.
    Pediatricians are reporting more and more cases of emasculated boys reaching puberty with breasts and tiny penises. Undescended testicles are also far more common than they were in the past.

    Remember too that soy estrogens damage far more than the reproductive system. The thyroid is usually hurt first, leading to loss of energy, weight gain, depression, lethargy, and a host of other symptoms.
    In mature adults soy lowers testosterone and sperm production in males and increases fat deposits in most females. Almost every soy product available (soy protein products too) contains phytoestrogens. (Supplemental bitch status. Yikes!)
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author25.htm

    ZOMG! No, unless you're guzzling five cartons of Silk Milk a day, there's no issue.
  7. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 3:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks. I already found out that soy milk will shrink my penis, but since I'm married, that really doesn't matter (just kidding).
  8. kwoww is offline
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    poser

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    Posted On:
    9/17/2007 4:41pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The benefits, which have been scientifically recorded and are significant, totally outweigh the drawbacks, for which proof is dubious and are minor.

    Soy protein is really really good for you, plus soy has other vitamins and minerals as well. Alternate it with regular milk unless you're lactose intolerant.
  9. andrewa is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2007 6:53am


     Style: Grappling/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys read this article called "Poison Protein".

    http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459516
  10. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    9/21/2007 7:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to drink Soy milk.

    I also use it to make my soy protein shakes. I have been doing this for about 2 years. Thsi year I had a vasectomy. They did a pre and post op sperm count on me. The results from the pre count were the same as the one from 10 years previous, when we were trying to conceive our first child.

    As for the protein intake. Dont use Soy as your only/main source of protein. Eat chicken or fish. Frozen Salmon steaks are a good and cheap way to get protein.

    Also try Whey protein powder. Doesnt taste as good but its an option.

    Of course the best person to ask would be El Macho.
    Last edited by HonkyTonkMan; 9/21/2007 7:31am at .
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