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  1. antman is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 2:06am


     Style: Silat, New to Hsing- Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hunga Grappling Defense

    Would have liked to seen a real shoot at full speed. Not being a grappler myself and coming from my background I don't see application 1 as being more effective than sprawling but more risky. Looking for input from others, other than that sucks. However that sucks could explain it all.

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  2. T3hJudoChop is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 7:18am


     Style: Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    that sucks.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 7:48am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the black taoist. I think there is a thread about him and his hun-gar grappling (if you can call that grappling) :tongue6:
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  4. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 8:44am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    That's the black taoist. I think there is a thread about him and his hun-gar grappling (if you can call that grappling) :tongue6:
    There are three guys in this video. The first one is Sharif Bey, a hung ga guy (one of Yee's, I think -- Ming?), the second and third are bagua guys, Ben Hill Bey and the Black Taoist. The sudden uptick in "shoot defense" and "ground fighting" videos from the BT and friends is unfortunate.
  5. T3hJudoChop is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 9:12am


     Style: Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    There are three guys in this video. The first one is Sharif Bey, a hung ga guy (one of Yee's, I think -- Ming?), the second and third are bagua guys, Ben Hill Bey and the Black Taoist. The sudden uptick in "shoot defense" and "ground fighting" videos from the BT and friends is unfortunate.
    I suspect some commercial motives are behind the sudden uptick. This isn't exclusive to this group. We've seen a number of crappling videos circulating the net for a while now. MMA and groundfighting in particular, have forced alot of stylists to find a solution to the issue of that range of combat typically known for its overflowing lava and broken glass.

    Here's what I imagine happens: students come to these teachers asking "what should i do in X situation that i saw on Y MMA promtion" Teacher, instead of acknowleding the limits of their knowledge with a simple "Uh, I don't know. Let's go find out at a school that studies grapples," prefers to feign wisdom with a "Oh, you don't have to go elsewhere to find the answer. We have the answer right here, in our stances. Let them grab my leg. I will drop my weight. They will be unable to continue using their shoot against me. Booyah Bitches!"

    or something to that effect.

    In order to woo students, or prevent them from leaving, some schools, may demonstrate techniques supposedly designed to answer the groundfighting/wrestling question raised by the explosion of MMA and grappling in particular. New students or students who have never grappled won't argue since these students don't know any better, protecting the teachers from losing that oh-so-vital resource: the student.

    At least, that's my impression.
  6. Lendo is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 10:08am

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     Style: BJJ/VT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The "shoots" in that video are awful.
  7. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 10:27am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by T3hJudoChop
    I suspect some commercial motives are behind the sudden uptick.
    I suspect that you're correct, but I still want to know why these guys aren't just crosstraining in a groundfighting style. Why such vigorous opposition to such an obvious answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo
    The "shoots" in that video are awful.
    It's not so much that they're bad shoots as that they're not shoots at all. The guy just grabs in slow motion and then stops -- no forward pressure, no weight transfer, nothing. It's... well, it's someone LARPing a shoot, really.
  8. Ming Loyalist is offline
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    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 10:39am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    There are three guys in this video. The first one is Sharif Bey, a hung ga guy (one of Yee's, I think -- Ming?), the second and third are bagua guys, Ben Hill Bey and the Black Taoist. The sudden uptick in "shoot defense" and "ground fighting" videos from the BT and friends is unfortunate.
    yes, sifu sharif bey is from the yee's association, and is a very good teacher, and a good stand up fighter. no one should doubt his striking skills at all. i have no reference for his ability to do groundfighting.

    i don't want to comment on this too much other than to say that it's pretty clear that the person shooting on him isn't executing a proper shot. i would very much like to see him do this technique against a competitive wrestler.

    i will say that in MY branch, we don't teach that technique as a way to combat the takedown... we teach the sprawl for that. we also encourage students to test their sprawl against those with a wrestling background, as it is much harder to defend a well-trained shot than it is to defend against a sloppy shot. (i went to some open mat wrestling sessions to work on my sprawl a couple years back, and it taught me a lot.)

    if we could avoid getting adversarial it would be great to get some of these guys to attend a throwdown so we could see how these hold up against the grapplers who show up. i will work on this, but would appreciate if we could keep the style bashing to a minimum, and the comments constructive so we can foster an environment that helps everyone improve their training and keep an open mind.
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  9. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 10:58am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    if we could avoid getting adversarial it would be great to get some of these guys to attend a throwdown so we could see how these hold up against the grapplers who show up. i will work on this, but would appreciate if we could keep the style bashing to a minimum, and the comments constructive so we can foster an environment that helps everyone improve their training and keep an open mind.
    That would be the best possible thing. In terms of style bashing: I, for one, have known some great stand-up fighters who trained in Hung Ga[r], Bagua, and other CMA. I have all respect for properly trained CMA, but this faux groudfighting stuff is really disappointing...
  10. Boyd is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/13/2007 11:03am

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     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    if we could avoid getting adversarial it would be great to get some of these guys to attend a throwdown so we could see how these hold up against the grapplers who show up. i will work on this, but would appreciate if we could keep the style bashing to a minimum, and the comments constructive so we can foster an environment that helps everyone improve their training and keep an open mind.
    Why should someone so obviously full of **** teaching such obvious trash be treated with any respect?
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