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  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    92
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Honestly it is kinda dum question! That just means for me to even get close to answering it I would have to expand my mind! Which also means I would have to have experience in both feilds of thought Grappling and Striking.

    Now the example of Kid Cope had many years of one style and was adavenced. What that means is that he understood the different ideas from fighting. There are like three major ideas from fighting you need to understand - entering, controlling, and finishing.

    If you have a good strong mental approach any style will be very easy for you! That means you would need to have good natural corrdination before you did them though.

    A striker has like about 7-14 punches and 7-14 kicks! I am there using the punch to mean elbows and the kick to infer knee as well. Those would be the basic functions than a student would need to know effect on opponent and what an opponent would do back and what is a way to defend same thing thrown back at them. When you think about it does not seem that much.

    Grapplier well hum! I am less skilled! This would require that one know how to clinch, takedown, and for finish something like lock or ground and pound. Dang it has been awhile sense I was in a grappling class. I can not remember. There are a bunch of things that are very small and read(the feel of where some opponet is going) oriented for a grapplier to do it right. Kinda why everyone is impressed with BJ Penn and his fast study.

    Like a take down or shoot has certain things you have to do on certain angles that are not the same for each angle. Forinstance I personnaly never enter to being right on the waist line, for me it is better to enter to where I could close of the upper body or put my shoulder lower around the middle thigh to take someone down. That is really just how I had to do it.

    Most important thing is that you have a understanding mental approach that has a strong understnding of applied thought. The thing is there are like different stages your mind will go through as well if you are not at the level to see applied logic yet, that is what takes all the time to get something. Undestanding if I put hand here he will just pivot his wrist and grab my hand so ... on.

    Realisticly, It would be very hard to say!

    Bjj good for lock(joint)(muscle) to body control.
    Greco good at takedown and hard to brake a hold so good ground mount control.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Umeň, Sweden/ Paris, France
    Posts
    1,234
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What the **** did I just read? Give me back my 2 minutes of life, man.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    596
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you train until you feel ready to fight and then you go get your ass handed to you, and then you revise and repeat.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    santo domingo, dominican republic
    Posts
    961
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i wasn't aware asking how much training or what styles of grappling can complement a proficient striker to make the fighter effective in MMA was that stupid, guess i am just way off.

    and... wow. that was some... interesting stuff forgetit.

    "find a real MMA coach" is pretty easy to say without factoring in there is only 1 MMA school in the entire country.

  5. #15
    T3h R34l Gangnam Style! staff
    Wolf's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
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    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,540
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Yes, Greco has takedowns.
    If I had to guess, and I HOPE this is the case, he MEANT leg attack takedowns. Greco won't teach you a double or single leg which is pretty important, but more important is that BECAUSE you don't have leg attack takedowns you don't have the sprawl which is pretty much essential. I'd say freestyle/american folk is a better beginning with greco either added later, or trained simultaneously if it can be.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    68
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    These things are not like chemical combinations that you can measure with precision.
    Accuracy? Probably not. Percision? I think you can measure with some precision because enough people have done it to make generalizations.

    I think the OP was trying to figure out how much of a commitment it would take to learn ground BJJ. It is a valid question. Enough people have gone through BJJ so that new students can have an idea how long it takes to learn the system.

    Is BJJ about stregnth, athleticism, power, and stregnth? Or is BJJ a scientific system of methods so anyone can use it to leverage against bigger, stronger fighters?

    The BJJ website for the Gracie dojo in Brazil says they do not give out black belts unless there is 10 years training in BJJ.
    Last edited by JJson; 9/09/2007 8:19pm at .

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    memphis tn
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    63
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i would say strength over stregnth

  8. #18
    Uri Shatil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Greater Boston
    Posts
    744
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    If I had to guess, and I HOPE this is the case, he MEANT leg attack takedowns. Greco won't teach you a double or single leg which is pretty important, but more important is that BECAUSE you don't have leg attack takedowns you don't have the sprawl which is pretty much essential. I'd say freestyle/american folk is a better beginning with greco either added later, or trained simultaneously if it can be.
    Of course I meant leg attack takedowns. What else could I mean?

    And I did mention that greco has no sprawls, and you're right that that's more important. Too many BJJ guys I see respond to a double-leg by just pulling guard, which is stupid because if you sprawl you can end up with a guillotine choke, crucifix, and a lot of other fun stuff.

    Greco will not teach you how to sprawl, so if a grappler decides to shoot, you're more or less fucked.

  9. #19
    Uri Shatil's Avatar
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    Mar 2007
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And, also...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Yes, Greco has takedowns.
    In greco-roman wrestling, you are not allowed to attack the legs. No leg attacks = no takedowns.

  10. #20
    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville supporting member
    Boyd's Avatar
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    Sep 2002
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    Cwcville
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    5,382
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by forgetit
    Honestly it is kinda dum question! That just means for me to even get close to answering it I would have to expand my mind! Which also means I would have to have experience in both feilds of thought Grappling and Striking.

    Now the example of Kid Cope had many years of one style and was adavenced. What that means is that he understood the different ideas from fighting. There are like three major ideas from fighting you need to understand - entering, controlling, and finishing.

    If you have a good strong mental approach any style will be very easy for you! That means you would need to have good natural corrdination before you did them though.

    A striker has like about 7-14 punches and 7-14 kicks! I am there using the punch to mean elbows and the kick to infer knee as well. Those would be the basic functions than a student would need to know effect on opponent and what an opponent would do back and what is a way to defend same thing thrown back at them. When you think about it does not seem that much.

    Grapplier well hum! I am less skilled! This would require that one know how to clinch, takedown, and for finish something like lock or ground and pound. Dang it has been awhile sense I was in a grappling class. I can not remember. There are a bunch of things that are very small and read(the feel of where some opponet is going) oriented for a grapplier to do it right. Kinda why everyone is impressed with BJ Penn and his fast study.

    Like a take down or shoot has certain things you have to do on certain angles that are not the same for each angle. Forinstance I personnaly never enter to being right on the waist line, for me it is better to enter to where I could close of the upper body or put my shoulder lower around the middle thigh to take someone down. That is really just how I had to do it.

    Most important thing is that you have a understanding mental approach that has a strong understnding of applied thought. The thing is there are like different stages your mind will go through as well if you are not at the level to see applied logic yet, that is what takes all the time to get something. Undestanding if I put hand here he will just pivot his wrist and grab my hand so ... on.

    Realisticly, It would be very hard to say!

    Bjj good for lock(joint)(muscle) to body control.
    Greco good at takedown and hard to brake a hold so good ground mount control.
    I don't know who you are, but you're my new favorite person.
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