Posted On:9/10/2007 11:17pm
And under what name did you serve him?
Posted On:9/10/2007 11:32pm
Ashida Kim is being processed. And Barron and Wendy Sheppard too.
Posted On:9/10/2007 11:34pm
Sam shoot William an E-mail. At firstname.lastname@example.org he would like to talk to you privately. Thak you
Posted On:9/10/2007 11:45pm
COUNT DANTE AKA JOHN KEEHAN, PIMPING MA TO THE MASSES
There are a few good things to be said about our next Bullshidoka. By most accounts he knew how to fight, he staged full contact tournments, and he was considered racially enlighted for his day. This aside Dante was a chronic liar, a criminal, and a guy who got one of his senior students killed over a disagreement involving a woman.
Until he changed his name legally in 1967 to Juan Raphael Dante, so he could pretend he was a faux Spanish Count, Dante went by the moniker John Keehan. It was under this rather normal name he studied Karate under Robert Trias, and the United States Karate Association. After being expelled from the USKA in December 1964, John got himself arrested and convicted the following year for taping a blasting cap to the window of a rival martial arts school while he was drunk. Keehan got probation for this escapade.
After the name change , Dante published the ridiculous "World's Deadliest Fighting Secrets" which he hawked to kids through ads in comic books. Dante was the first to make a killing in the Western world through hysterical over the top Dim Mak advertising. "Yes, this is the DEADLIEST and most TERRIFYING fighting art known to man-and WITHOUT EQUAL. Its MAIMING, MUTILATING, DISFIGURING, PARALYZING and CRIPPLING techniques are known by only a few people in the world. An expert at DIM MAK could easily kill many Judo, Karate, Kung Fu, and Gung Fu experts at one time with only finger-tip pressure using his murderous POISON HAND WEAPONS. Instructing you step by step thru each move in this manual is none other than COUNT DANTE - "The DEADLIEST MAN WHO EVER LIVED." (THE CROWN PRINCE OF DEATH)." Substitute SCARS for dim Mak, and Jerry Peterson for Crown Prince of Death and you have the future of Martial Arts advertising.
Dante's relationship with other Chicago martial arts schools were usually quite bad. On April 24, 1970 he brought his senior student and Judo expert Jim Koncevic along to trash the Green Dragon Society's Kung Fu School. Koncevic's last words to one friend was that the dispute was over "a broad". After breaking down the door, Dante and his crew attacked the six Green Dragon members inside, and were on their way to routing them when one Green Dragon grabbed a sword of the wall and used it to stab Koncevic who had attempted to grapple. Koncevic then bled to death on the sidewalk outside this school. (Sword over Judo for the win!)
Dante was acquitted on the criminal charges filed over this incident and similarly avoided prosecution for his possible involvement in the theft of over $4 million from Purolator Security in 1974. Before his death he had invested in a chain of Adult Bookstore which resulted in connections to the Chicago mob which he coveted. According to Massad Ayoob Dante's "obsession with violence" ruled his life, and he was known for claiming to have killed men in "Kung Fu death matches in Hong Kong" well before Frank Dux appeared on the martial arts scene.
By age 36, however Dante had serious health problems. He died on May 25, 1975, from a hemorrhage caused by a bleeding ulcer, but not before selling a mail order Black Dragon Fighting Society card to one Radford W. Davis, better known as Ashida Kim. One tragedy is that Dante supposedly taught a fairly effective fighting art, one that resembled "primitive kempo". While this system is now taught by a few people, it was largely eclipsed and displaced by Dante's own wacky advertising and bizzare antics.
Massad Ayoob, The Truth About Self Protection, (Bantam Books, New York, 1983, 1994), pp. 244-246.
The Wikiencyclopedia article
Posted On:9/10/2007 11:46pm
Just so that everyone knows my take on the matter.
Posted On:9/11/2007 12:53am
Originally Posted by floydwebb
My name is Floyd Webb and I am producer of the film, The Search for Count Dante. I state my identity now as Mr. Creeden has been known to use my name to post to other boards and make use of his obsessively gay humour.
He is truly a twisted individual as you have no doubt witnessed during his tenure on Bullshido. He gives new meaning to the whole concept.
I am posting this for clarification of the issue from my point of view and to counter Mr Creedens attempts at creating disorder so he can become part of it.
This matter will not be settled on the internet. It will be resolved in court. Their rights to power of attorney to claim ownership over the estate and intellectual property rights of John Timothy Keehan aka Juan Raphael Dante, will be proven or disproven for once and for all.
It is surprising that they have chosen to go to court instead of just producing their power of attorney to my counsel and been done with it. To the best of my knowledge the images I have are available to use in my film under Fair Use law. Nothing I have has been supplied to me by Aguiar. He has never responded to my request for a visual catalog of images he supposedly owns. I am acquiring images of Keehan from people who knew him personally over 50 years of history of martial arts. I am also using images from the original book by Count Dante that was copyrighted in 1968, no images from the Fall River edition of World's Deadliest Fighting Secrets.
This is the issue, proof of power of attorney in order to indemnify myself against all other claims that others may produce once I have made any financial deal, if any, with the Fall River Black Dragon Fighting Society. I no longer have any interest in doing any business with them at all.
No amount of frivilous lawsuits that have nothing to do with the telling of this story of the life of John Timothy Keehan/Count Dante is going to stop the film from being made. The suit in federal court means nothing to the making of the film.
As I have already said, I requested a visual catalog of images the BDFS from their lawyer for two years and have never received a reply to my request. I offered to pay market value for the use of any archival materials I deemed usuable and the reply was that Aguiar wanted to be paid a fee for an interview and $10,000 to look at his archive. Totally unreasonable. I found this especially tiring as Aguiar III has no first hand knowledge of Dante and claims the legacy solely as an inheritance. The father, Aguiar, Jr latched onto Dante when he was in a decline after the 1970 Dojo War with the Green Dragon Society in which the death of Jim Konsevic occured.
In my research I have obtained photos from private collections of John Keehan/Dante's contemporaries and students. Few of them have any first hand knowledge of the Fall River crew. Dante was involved with them after his star faded in Chicago. Yet Aguiar III wants to lay claim to all things Dante. He has a history of shutting down one websites, Ashida Kims. He had mine shut down but it was determined, with the assistance of legal counsel, that I was not infringing based upon, fair use copyright law. My site is back up at http://thesearchforcountdante.com
John Creeden, working for Bill Aguiar III, had my trailers for the film removed from YouTube along with other film fooatge he has absolutle nothing to do with, footage shot by a local Chicago filmmaker in 1964. Long before there was any association with Fall River. My footage has been restored to YouTube after my attorney dealt explained the situation to them,
Aguiar III trolls the internet seeking anyone who makes use of images of Count Dante and pounces on them with offcial looking paperwork generated by an attorney who does not answer email and seldom returns phone calls. These are scare tactics to shake a mythological money tree that they think belongs to them.
Aguiar III is attempting to claim ownership over images I am using. I want to verify not his holding of copyrights and trademarks over these images, but his legal power of attorney to do so. Some of these image may have been "work-for-hire" and not photographic buy outs and are most likely still owned by the photographers. Soe of the images may eblong to some of my sources here in Chicago. We will discover this in court now.
His associate John Creeden has sold film footage of John Keehan/Dante to my business associate, recieved $1000.00 with a verbal agreement for all rights (fooolish on the part of both parties) and then charged him with copyright infringement because the footage showed up on YouTube associated with Ashida Kim.
Mr Creeden brags that he scammed my associate rightfully. That will have to be resolved in court. Mr Creeden is not associated with the Aguiar suit and is not a business partner of Mr Aguiar. Creeden is clearly a scamming agitator who seeks to merely create confusion. Mr Creeden attempted to go into business with my associate and then angered him by changing their initial deal after he had recieved a deposit for footage that was being bought sight unseen, footage that he shot off a TV screen from his good buddies DVD. Paying him monies upfront was good-hearted and well intentioned act on the part of my associate, but extremely unwise.
I claim the right to use images of John Keehan/Dante in my film under the laws of Fair Use for Documentary film. I have been engaged as a pro bono client of the program.
I am not involved in a martial arts school nor I am involved in starting one.
All the Keehan family members I have located know nothing of the Aguiars or of any circumstances in which they have power of attorney over the intellectual property right and estate of John Keehan.
Mr Creeden is a sad man with way too much time on him hands and who is a very bad advisor for William Aguiar, III. I find it interesting that the Black Dragon Fighting Society of Fall River only comes alive to hate Ashida Kim or to attempt to collect monies on the legacy of John Keehan while they have failed to create a martial arts legacy of their own.
All that being said, the film becomes more interesting with an added element of absurd humor as I roll out the characters of the last days of John Keehan who went from being a martial arts superstar in Chicago in the 1960s, to his fall into Fall River and death in 1975 after masterminding a 4 million dollar vault robbery.
The Search for Count Dante
Hey mr Webb!!! here is a shout out to ya man. We spoke some time ago. me hoping you would make it out to San FRancisco. I was a student of one of Rawliy Hawkins guys in Baltimore. You published a letter I wrote you in your blog.
I hope all is proceeding well for you. For people who don't know mr Webb's enterprise is an artistic endevour, and he is imo well up to the task. Whatever one may think of Dante he was a colorful and influental guy and as one of Triase's guys he had skills and the he was an equal opportunity teacher (unlike Triase as times).
I have spoken to mr Webb and his credability is sterling, his interviews with Dante's cohorts are entertaining and insightful and he is a nice guy who, unlike the half wits he is dealing with, gets back to you right away, can string together an intelligent sentence and has something meaningful and creative to do with material related to Dante.
Floyd I bought a couple of Dante T-shirts and wear them with pride! :icescream Please keep plugging away and don't let these half wits interfere with your vision. I will email you on your site as well.
Last edited by Dsimon3387; 9/11/2007 1:46am at .
Posted On:9/11/2007 1:27am
Originally Posted by lamokio
My involment was by chance . They contacted my father and tried to swindle a beta tape from him. That sat on my shelf for 35 year's . My father is a sick man parkinson's, agent orange bad heart valve's and so on. They tried to get the tape from him the actual tape for 50 buck's telling him it's worthless and he could only get a small return. I'm my father's health care proxy and power of attorney. That's why i got involved. I talked to A guy named Don Warrner from Rising Sun Production's who told me beware of them. And the way they would go about it to defintely get a user agreement. So enter Barron Sheppard telling me that he never heard of Ashida Kim. But the same day I was at William V Aguiar's house telling him that he brought Ashida Kim's right's and their in pre-production. The light went off in my head. Then Barron tell's me that Master Aguiar JR was being pimped out by his son because he was sick. Master Aguiar jr was a father figure to me when I was young. I spent almost everyday of my life until I was 18 with the man. So that pissed me off big time
Barron tried to get my father to pose on a web site undermining the real Black Dragon Fighting Society. Then all of a sudden he knew Ashida Kim and admitted to me that he owned Dojo Press and all the right's to him for 1000 dollar's. Which is his weak kata dante stuff. So talking to my father I conferred with people I knew in the film industry. And they told me that it was worth more than 1000 so i told Barron I wanted 1500 because it was Dante himself and he agreed. My friend's told me again to get a user agreement and not to agree to nothing with out a signed document. Got a call from Floyd Webb who wanted a copy of it and actually wanted me to go to Ritz camera in Providence R.I. and they would pay for the transfer and shipping. So when I asked for a user agreement Floyd would alway's change the subject.
I have some good friend's who advised against this but I wanted the truth behind this because this was my childhood and someone I looked up to. Why would they cut people up this way something was wrong. So I developed the footage and sent Barron Sheppard 25 still's of the footage he loved them. So when I asked for a user agreement he said that he would send the first 500 right away. And he continued to disrespect a dead man. and when he got it if it was so bad why did he send the other 500.
So when I was going to send the footage to him Floyd and Barron continued to undermine Willian III with his friend John Patricio. They told me that they were going around William III anyway they could and told me that they paid John Patricio 7500 dollar's for exclusive flyer from the 60's World Karate Championship's. That's it I had enough. So I shot the footage from my camcorder and they got nothing. That is why they are so pissed. I called Barron Sheppard and he said that he gave it to Ashida Kim and it ended on you -tube. Here's the funny thing the footage in you -tube is William Aguiar's dvd's frame by frame and that's why William did a DCMA takedown.
Floyd has no lawyer he has to submit 2 dvd copies to fair use in Stanford. Were they cut his film up and tell him what is Fair Use and what is not. He say's he has no money but has a 350,000 budget. He has made no offer's just like the snake he is. William III never said he wanted to be paid for an interview. I even had conversation's to get him to see William's archive and he has passed. Every week we were at William III lawyer's office we would call Floyd and he never returned our call's
Floyd and Barron and Ashida are trying to twist thing's and undermine the real Black Dragon Fighting Society. That's why he is being sued. Never believe people who don't come to the table for business. Everyone please read Fair Use and they think they can do what they want. The only thing I did was hustle people who were husler's. They will think twice when they try to hustle old men who were real martial artist's
Floyd Webb is a scunbag in a classic sense. They pray on the week and think the can say and do what they want. But people like me and William III push back . And that's what tyhey don't like
And I knew Keehan . Floyd don't I got the pic's to prove it . As far as Chicago Keehan diary tell's all and that won't be in the film because it expose's them all for what are MAVEN's
ok so Floyd, for the sake of argument is a scumbag who is "hustling an old man out of his money." So where are the other film makers who are willing to make a movie about Dante? You know the guys who will pay for.... personal mementos, etc? I seriously doubt Floyd, or anyone else will get rich off a movie of this type. Pleeeeaaaase.
Floyd's project BTW is not about technical information. This is not about secret martial arts information. It is about bringing to light the exploits of a man who happens to be a martial artist. Under the circumstances most people would love to share information to honor somoene who is a part of their family.
The context of the informationis relevant here. If people were fucking censored everytime they wanted to do a historical project what would that do for education and the pursuite of knowledge? I find it dubious that you or anyone else can claim money, a fee, for this type of information. It won't stand up legally and it is outrageous. 'from the way you write I can tell you don't have much respect for the pursuite of knowledge for it's own sake and that is sad that those who do should be put in your strangle hold.
Ironickly I actually bought your tapes (legally from your society) because of their historical significance to me as a kid... I remember them in comic books, etc and I have a collection of martial arts books and memorabalia. And you know what? I was happy to buy them with the understanding that while i am not interested in the information as martial arts, it is technically techniques that you guys own the rights too. So you guys make your fucking dollars off of Dante!!
Meanwhile one would be led to believe that this scumbag opportunist Floyd WEbb comes along sees an old man with a golden egg in his hand and is trying to snatch it. Maybe that is your beef with Ashida Kim.... but it is total BS regarding the type of work Floyd Webb is attempting to do.
It is a flase impression that the Black Dragon Society does not get revenue from Dante... it is false that people are stealing information and I can post the check on this website if this is not believed. What you guys want to do is put a strangle hold on information that belongs to society and to a creative guy who wants to do something constructive with this information.
What you have is a slick bunch of legal eagles, a cynical disresepect for the first amendment rights that it is our duty as all Americans to uphold... even if somoene does not fish out a dollar for the privlege. Grow a set my friend and do the right thing!
Posted On:9/11/2007 8:13am
Doesn't matter what people think it's about good business practice's. This has been going on for 3 year's and this was screwed up way before I was around. Don't believe the hype anyone can right anything on the internet. Only the player's know the truth. Look why pay for copy-right's for people like Webb and Sheppard to come along to circumvent the owner
Alot of way's I want to see the movie made to. But not by stealing and going around the holder of a business
Floyd said I got the footage from England and then he got it from me. Then I got an e-mail from him stating that it's from William's dvd set. That is how he is so we will see were this end's up.
William know's that he will take a large chunk from Ashida Kim and Barron Sheppard for conspiracy to de-fraud. And a larger chunk from Floyd Webb. It's not about the money it's about sound business practice's
Posted On:9/11/2007 9:06am
Posted On:9/11/2007 9:08am
Dsimon, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I remember your letter well because it represents the heart of what my film is about.
This film is not about Fall River, it is about a historic and social mileau that produced Count Dante.
Fall River is at the end of Dante's journey. And it is not a flattering end.
In the philosophy of the Black Dragon Fighting Society of Fall River, MA it is infringement of copyright for Mr Browning to produce the above card for Bullshido without their express permission and/or licensing. Let alone the fact that the advert the picture comes from, per my yet to be confirmed research, may have been produced by the Joe Weider Company, who Keehan was in partnership with for distribution and promotion of The World's Deadliest Fighting Secrets.
Aguiar claims to own the rights to 4000 images from Dante's collection, yet there is no catalog of them. Possession does not necessarily signify ownership. To date no one has seen these 4000 images so it may as well not exist.
My worst case scenario would have been taking everything they claim as true and busted my ass to pay them money up front only to be set upon by 20 other people who claim they have negatives to the same picture and try to hit me up for additional monies for the same images.
This is what has happened in the case of the wrestling footage of of Dante. Creeden was paid $1000.00 sight unseen by my associate. Aguiar then claimed copyright infringement, saying Creedens father signed ownership of the film over to Aguiar's father.
I informed Creeden that I would not use any of their footage that my associate bought and that he should return the money and forget about it.
I am sure more footage of Dante will turn up in future from sources in Chicago. I have great vintage footage that was made available to me by Ken Knudson before his tragic death. Footage that helps me describe the early days of MA. I can use recreations to make it all work.
It is a shame that the making of a film inspires such ire and attempts at smear campaigns.
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