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  1. lamokio is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    fall river mass
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    783

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 6:07pm


     Style: chaos

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    seriously are we wrong. please your opinion's . Aside from all the P.T. Barnum stuff aside.
      #1011
  2. Kung Fu Pimp is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tucson, Chicago, Shaolin
    Posts
    38

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 6:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu Grip

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lamokio

    ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha we rule suck it:qleft3:
    Someone please tell me this guy sounds like a 14 year old because he is actually 14 years old.
      #1012
  3. lamokio is offline

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    Jun 2007
    Location
    fall river mass
    Posts
    783

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 8:25pm


     Style: chaos

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kung Fu Pimp
    Someone please tell me this guy sounds like a 14 year old because he is actually 14 years old.
    3:ninjadanc:waoya
      #1013
  4. lamokio is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    fall river mass
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    783

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 8:36pm


     Style: chaos

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    HERE'S OUR TAKE ON STOFFEL E-MAIL'S

    From: "isat716" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: B.D.F.S. MASTER BILL AGUIAR
    Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:52:27 -0700


    GREETINGS FROM S.A

    Thank you for responding to my letter and await your letter.

    I have been on leave and only returned today so just a friendly Hi!

    Regards

    Stoffel van Vuuren

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    To: <blackdragon@isat.co.za>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:42 AM
    Subject: B.D.F.S. MASTER BILL AGUIAR


    > Mr.Vuuren, I have recived your letter ABOUT YOUR
    > B.D.F.S.. WE WILL BE SENDING YOU A RETURN LETTER.
    > It will state how and what you will need to do to be
    > part of us.
    > this is my e-mail masteraguiar@yahoo.com
    > thak you,Master Bill Aguiar of B.D.F.S./C.D.F.S.

    From: "isat716" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: B.D.F.S. MASTER BILL AGUIAR
    Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:08:03 -0700


    Dear Master Aguiar,

    Thank You for e-mail and as mentioned had been looking forward for the
    letter via post.

    The possibility of attending seminar is not a problem however the dates
    and
    venue I need to see if it is possible.
    As you are aware our currency is not good at present and so funds have
    to be
    raised timeously.
    I do have some airmail's available and wanted to utilized it to
    possible
    bring you to our country in the near distant further.

    Secondly if possible do you have any additional info available except
    what
    is on the WebPages about yourself and info on the BDFS and also CDFS?

    Also have you decide what fees and my involvement within the
    organisation
    will
    be? Please this is only questions that I have right now.
    What will happen with the BDFS in south africa as it stands right now?

    Kindly can you e-mail info , ranking structures , Grand Counsel Yes /
    No ,
    is there any present any person/s affiliated to yourselves or is there
    schools that belongs to yourself in south africa?

    As mentioned my martial art goals is to ensure I only have the best for
    my
    students at hart and give the best.
    It is maybe a good thing that the Internet came to light as it
    eliminates
    all the false and self made Grandmasters around the world.

    This brings me to another point: My status is that of Grandmaster
    Region 9 -
    Africa Continent and will this remain or will my status change?


    Awaiting you reply to my questions?


    Greetings


    Master Stoffel van Vuuren
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    To: "isat716" <blackdragon@isat.co.za>
    Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:24 AM
    Subject: Re: B.D.F.S. MASTER BILL AGUIAR


    > MR.Vuuren, I havent forgot about you, I have been very
    > busy Im sorry for the delay. I will be working on your
    > letter this week, hang tight its comming.
    > Master Bill Aguiar OF THE BLACK DRAGON FIGHTING
    > SOCIETY p.s what would you think about attending a
    > seminar with us?



    From: "stoffel" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: masteraguiar@yahoo.com
    Subject: BLACK DRAGON FIGHTING SOCIETY - SOUTH AFRICA
    Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 02:57:37 +0200
    Dear Master Aquiar,


    Greetings from South Africa.

    I write this e-mail purely to access if we could built a Mutual Relationship as fellow Martial Artist and also since both parties represent the BDFS International.

    I suggest that you peruse my website and also achievements Internationally and involvement with reputable Martial Artists.

    I do not request any rank agreement or affiliations but purely since I had the BDFS Badges copy-right in S A and also the Kanji badge feel that I could be of assistance to get them to you for resale on website.

    Also enquire about having copies available of Count Dante ( Keenan) printed here and posted on my website. I could also link up with your website from this side.

    Dear Master:

    I trust you will have a open mind reading this e-mail as I have manage to get over 1200 students in S A alone affiliated and we have now enter the Ultimate Fighting Arena in South Africa under the BDFS Banner and have produced three Champions that will travel to Japan shortly to fight there as well.

    We also do voluntary work at schools for the disable Children and Adults.
    We also are involved with Reach For A Dream to give last requests to the needy
    We have teams of student that assist the Aged on pay-day to go shopping without being mugged.

    My motto has always been to give back to the community as much possible and in return I have been blessed.

    I have also been awarded a Ph.D. from Venezuela - Caracas - 2001
    and during 2004 from the American Martial Arts College my D.Sc.

    As you will see this is just a short list of achievements and trust you will also see that by standing together and YES you still remains the Ultimate Grandmaster of BDFS, we can become again a Federation that is Accepted in the Fighting Arena and by many students Internationally.

    I trust this e-mail reach you the way it was intended for.


    Regards


    Soke Stoffel van Vuuren [Ph.D] [D.Sc.]
    Grandmaster BDFS - SA
    Regional Director AFMA

    From: "stoffel" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: masteraguiar@yahoo.com
    Subject: Follow-Up E-mail 31/03/2004
    Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:48:37 +0200
    Dear Master Aguiar,


    Just a short follow-up e-mail to share more info and ideas:

    I will on my website will give you full recognition that you are the Supreme Master for BDFS
    I will grant access to all my literature and DVD`s to your disposal
    Any Yodansha Gradings will be signed by both of us so there will be some funds coming your way
    Badges sold and books will be percentage share obviously only once I reach $100-00 or more to safe on postal costs
    You will issue me with new BDFS certificates from your side acknowledge my rank at present only and not grading as such
    I will re-issue all your students with certificates from my side and also get them listed on website
    If you have any potential fighters that wish to take part in Ultimate Fighting let me know with names and weight to see if I could assist

    Any new student that affiliate will be made aware of the BDFS International Lineage and they will have the opportunity to liase and possible plan trips out your way - again generating funds for you.

    I simply want to be Good Brothers in Training as both of us believes we are doing good to all men and the BDFS especially from your side can only benefit.

    Personally this will generate large opportunities of funds coming your way and I only want recognition from you as being part and one of the Grandmasters of BDFS International.

    I don`y asked for any monies for the idea and don`t will not asked funds to give all your Black Belts recognition from my side either, just that we put the past away and together move forward as one federation?

    I trust once again you will reconsider my proposal with an open mind as this create a new market for you and trust me I have in place all resources to get you recognition and equipment already with the BDFS Logo Branded available. I only want to get the booklet going as well due to demands from student over the Globe.

    Brother In Training


    Stoffel van Vuuren
    South Africa

    From: "Stoffel Van Vuuren" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: Ashida Kim
    Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:37:03 +0200


    Dear Soke,


    I have distance myself from Ashida Kim and now need to know what the level of action will be to get going and grow the BDFS International?

    As mentioned I have National schools and International Instructors affiliated to me.

    My website is outdated and will wait to see the reply from yourself and then will update the relevant information.

    So please reply and let me know how you foresee our friendship and working relationship and what function I will have or do under you
    wing?

    I wait in anticipation.


    Stoffel van Vuuren. PhD D.Sc
    8th Degree - Jonin Level


    From: "Stoffel Van Vuuren" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: Ashida Kim
    Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:18:49 +0200


    Dear Soke,

    I decided about two months ago to go on my own and run the BDFS International as a company.

    I teach full time at present and feel that I need somebody that can contribute and give credentials that is acceptable to the Martial Community.

    So, if you feel you we can be one team and give growth I welcome you alternatively I will run with the infrastructure in place.

    As mentioned I have three DVD available that is to international Standards however the only negative is that our formats don`t play in some of your machines.

    I also have the BDFS logo and BDFS Kanji`a available in Black with Gold and Black with Red.

    Also have the screening for the BDFS Logo as worn by Count Dante during his interviews for shirts and Gi tops.

    Have double breasts jackets with the BDFS logo on pocket for sale, and caps with BDFS logo.

    Have also done sample for Ties that can be worn with jackets.


    I would asked if you decide to join forces to obtain copies of tapes that is available of Count Dante and in turn I will gladly send you copies of mine.

    We will have to format uniformity in I D Cards, Certificates, Awards, etc. to ensure we are one.

    This is my idea of unity and trust it will meet with your perusal AND approval.


    I await you reply,



    Stoffel
    South Africa



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: bill aguiar
    To: Stoffel Van Vuuren
    Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 6:18 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: Ashida Kim

    I would like to know the what when and whys of your break of you and ashida
    thanks

    From: "Stoffel Van Vuuren" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: "bill aguiar" <masteraguiar@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: BDFS
    Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:44:56 +0200


    Dear Sir,

    I`am of the opinion that we have since or first e-mail being mis-interoperated life goals.

    I`am also of the opinion that you want to make funds out of me whilst in fact I`am the one doing all the good out there.

    I`am also disappointed that the first opportunity you claim Royalties from me, whilst I stay in a country were we don`t believe in such business dealings.

    I`am also convinced that my linage can be traced back to Japan and not USA! Also Count Dante as you call him is not the only person who have been appointed to be G M for the BDFS?
    I also can produce proof from the Fraternity of the Black Dragon Council of which I have been inducted 2000.

    So I trust you will see why I`am so frustrated by your inability to see my vision rather than you trying now to make money out of me? Is that the way all Martial Artists in USA work?
    I have studied from many institutes and have achieved two Doctorate Degrees and also have my LLB in Law?

    Now under the Roman Law that is also your law you have no rights to claim funds from me.

    So unless you are willing to take the top seat and be recognised as the Ultimate Grandmaster then I think we will stop any correspondence with immediate effect.

    My website will be upgraded shortly as well and you will see I`am not claiming to be the Supreme Master or any or title for that matter but simply to give the many persons who want the TRUTH and LINAGE of BDFS INTERNATIONAL information base.

    So unless you have the proof that you have been appointed by the Ancient Grandmaster Council of the BDFS as the Supreme Master I feel that we should join or energy rather than trying to make money from each other.

    Also please take the opportunity to seek Legal Info and you will see that I`am not in any way breaking Royalty Laws?????????????



    Greetings



    Stoffel
    South Africa








    ----- Original Message -----
    From: bill aguiar
    To: Stoffel Van Vuuren
    Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 3:36 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: Ashida Kim

    there are manny things to speak about but right now im not varry happy with you useing my logs and making guidlines to a orginazation you are not part of yet and if we were to work somthing out you already need to pay me roalties for things you have sold under my logo in the past...
    there still is much to talk about

    From: "Prof. Stoffel van Vuuren" <blackdragon@isat.co.za> View Contact Details View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
    To: masteraguiar@yahoo.com
    Subject: CountDante.com Contact - BDFS South Africa
    Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:46:35 +0200
    Dear Bill,

    I write after Dr.Lawrence Day have become a friend unto me and we have shared our thoughts and it is time that we put OUR differences aside and speak and see if we can meet somewhere in the middle and maybe start I friendship.

    I have completely sever all ties with Ashida Kim however my website had not been updated however my webmaster promised it will be done by next Monday? We will see about that.

    I need to tell you that I have put you up as one of my links and trust this is in order????

    My thought are as follows if you want me to do any changes to my website or promote any products please don`t hesitate to contact me.

    I asked you to keep an open mind when reading this e-mail and trust it is received the way it is intended.

    Greetings,


    Stoffel van Vuuren
    South Africa
      #1014
  5. johnpatricio is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    East Bay, CA
    Posts
    907

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 8:50pm


     Style: BDFS

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    After all I've been through here I figured you admins wouldn't mind the plug.

    This the URL to my new store ELECTRIC DREAMS http://146124.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/

    20 different t-shirts for just $20.90 each (plus shipping)



      #1015
  6. Verne_Gilbert is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    597

    Posted On:
    10/30/2007 10:24pm


     Style: karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lamokio
    seriously are we wrong. please your opinion's . Aside from all the P.T. Barnum stuff aside.

    Yes John C. you guys are wrong. So many people have been trying to tell you that for a very long time now. But you folks in Fall Rivers see only that which you want to see. Such a shame.

    Respectfully
    Verne Gilbert
      #1016
  7. Lord Of Chaos is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    RI
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    155

    Posted On:
    10/31/2007 12:46am


     Style: pentjak silat/ kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    to floyd webb and all who support his film-

    ok, this debacle has already reached mythical proportions, based solely on the massive amounts of heresay and **** talking. i initially was 100% supportive of floyd and even emailed him with a "way to go man, sounds like a great movie!" type of email when i first heard about this film a couple years ago. i have read creeden's posts and (like most of you) decided he was an ass. i posted earlier on in this thread calling him every name in the book, because frankly, his demeanor offended me. i have even tried to post sobering screeds on here in hopes of making bill 3 see the light and cooperate with floyd's project, only to have creeden repeatedly shoot my ideas down even though the rest of you agreed with me.

    then floyd posts his blog today.

    and i don't know why none of you took any pause to call him on out on some of the things he's saying, but please allow me to (hopefully) shine some light on exactly what he has said.

    first of all, it is downright pretentious of floyd who is not a martial artist himself to tell ANYONE, much less a serious fighter who has devoted his or her life to martial arts that "martial arts is all about respect". (and no floyd, those few years of training you had as a pre adolescent really don't count, i'm 34 years old and have been training consistently since i was 10, where i come from that'd be considered fairly dedicated). you as a NON PARTICIPANT cannot define the aesthetics of something you are merely an observer of. please do not forget that.

    aside from that disclaimer though, i agree with you that martial arts is all about respect. but when someone fucks up or is straight up LYING about their martial arts credentials, well then, they are not deserving of any respect from anyone. they are playing a dangerous game, and are fair game to be exposed, ridiculed, ostracized, and maybe even beaten to a bloody pulp or sued. that is exactly what this site aims to do. and would you like to know who two of the biggest offenders of being full of **** are? two people you support named ashida kim and stoffel van vuuren.

    publicly defending these two pieces of **** is one word- ignorant. it is well documented that ashida kim is a complete fucking fake, yet on patricio's board you keep defending him like he's actually a real martial artist. THE MAN IS A FUCKING LIAR FLOYD, yet you continue to make excuses for him saying "he only did what anyone with a mailorder business would have done" and "at least he kept the bdfs name alive". give me a fucking break. take 10 minutes to read the expose on him on this very site, and it should become clear to anyone with a modicum of common sense that the man is a fucking con artist piece of ****. even when i was ragging on creeden earlier on in this thread i still encouraged him and bill to stick it to asshida in court. i'd love nothing more than to see that walter mitty dickwad put out of commission once and for all. he (like a lot of "ninjas" in the 1980's) was only able to peddle his crap back in the pre- internet days when it was easier to do so.

    also, re: van vuuren. i read the lame ass emails he sent to bill 3, and frankly, i think bill was actually too nice to that asshole. he (with asshida's urging) has created a very lucrative fake bdfs in s africa with absolutely no credibility whatsoever. i read the same emails you read (the ones creeden just re- posted) and the gist of them is essentially that van vuuren seems to have no problem appointing himself the grandmaster of a martial art he has absolutely no legitimate affiliation with, and when he was caught lying he got all "oh well, you can head my organization as training brothers" in his response to bill. nevermind that the jackass copyrighted a patch he didn't even design. his emails are the equivalent of aguiar catching him driving around in a car that he stole from him, and his bitch- ass response being something like "well hey man, tell ya what, why don't we share this car!?" i'm sure that you've noticed that he's currently being debunked on another thread on this site, and good money says he'll be proven as a complete fake too.

    no amount of wishy- washy "well there's too sides to every story" crap exhonerates either one of these assholes. they're fucking liars and thieves and it doesn't take more than two braincells to realize that. you can hate bill and think he's an asshole all you want, but he has every right to go after these douches for straight up stealing the name of his organization. and like it or not bill IS the legitimate grandmaster of bdfs whether he behaves the way WE all want him to or not. i've never met the man, but his credentials are indisputable, and that is something that should be respected no matter how much you hate him for bringing you to court. it would appear that sour grapes on your part might be the main reason that you are giving airtime to to these fake bozos in the first place. you know bill will become infuriated about that.

    and honestly, i don't really think you actually believe any of these charlatain's stories, but by featuring them in your film without at least a mention that their credentials may be a bit "questionable" does not show much professionalism on your part. you will have in fact proven creeden and aguiar to have been right all along if you aim to portray bdfs as the property of con men. i'm no sure that you're NOT going to mention their sketchy claims in your movie but i certainly hope that you do.

    i don't know the deal with lawrence day (and don't have the energy to find out, sorry) but his credentials state that he put some time in with shaolin do. shaolin do is yet ANOTHER bunch of bullshitters that bullshido has de- frauded, so for him to hook up with the s africa crew is no suprise if the ever popular "these ancient secret techniques were taught to me in a nameless place by an anonymous master i can't talk about" crap is what he's drawn to.

    and since stories are the only thing these fakes have accomplished, now that we've entered the information age these crooks are all running for their lives and coming up with some VERY creative stories to try and save face. well i'm not buying it. in fact, i never did.

    do you really intend to resort to this national enquirer style of yellow journalism to pad out your film because you are pissed at bill and creeden? is that a movie you'd be proud of making? you really do not want to go that route floyd. you'll have proven creeden right all along and will have learned nothing from this site. you'll have given the snake oil salesmen invaluable free advertising and (ironically) allowed them to perjure themselves on video (which will, no doubt allow for bill aguiar to file even more lawsuits with totally legitimate reason).

    and before we get all wrapped up in the whole "martial arts is about being an honorable, respectful, mr. myagi boyscout with no character flaws" bullshit, let me clue you all in on a little something. some of the best fighters i've ever met were also some of the most utterly FUCKED up people i've ever met as well. in my quest to learn the most brutal and effective fighting techniques i could find, i've trained with criminals, killers, drug addicts, womanizers, religious zealots, and many more generally "bad" people. the myth that "real" martial artists are all lily white and perfectly moral people needs to be thrown out the window. yes, i've trained with some real characters over the years but i would never, repeat NEVER train with someone who was lying to me about their abilities. THAT is where the line should be drawn floyd, not "well ashida and van vuuren were really polite, nice guys and creeden and aguiar were dicks, so that means ashida and van vuuren are REAL martial artists and the fall river crew are just thugs."

    did you ever stop and think that perhaps ashida and van vuuren are so polite because they are putting on an act and trying to con people? there is a lot to be said for a fighter who is honest with himself and his students. i respect the fighters who don't claim to be perfect. the ones who do are usually full of ****, and if you know anything about contemporary martial arts (which is apparently not much, i'd suggest spending some more time reading articles and threads on here), you know that the days of the invincible, perfect sensei are pretty much over. yes floyd, the respect is still there, but people generally want to train with a down to earth, honest, knowledgeable martial artists who can FIGHT and back it up, not larger than life pseudo mystics who pretend to have unlocked the secrets of the universe but really only care about money.

    dante may very well have been a wacky disrespectful criminally minded sociopath with a pet lion, but guess what? he was also a talented martial artist. as a martial artist myself i am infinitely more interested in what he did for the arts and the art he created than his wacky hijynks and eccentricities. sure that's entertaining, but are you seriously going to try to sell a film full of two hours of douchebags like ashida kim, a bad bay area rock band, numerous tom- dick- and- harrys who "took one of his classes when i was 12!" and an eccentric british author (please, again, tell me, what the **** does that guy have to do with count dante other than loosely basing one of the characters in his book on him?) i mean, come on. yeah it's REALLY a film about myth and urban legend and blah blah blah but are you going to be arrogant enough to let ashida kim be on camera and talk about how he's the head of the "international black dragon fighting society" and not even at least counter with "well a lot of people say you're lying."

    good luck with your film floyd, but really, seriously, think about what you're doing. even without bill's material you can probably make a decent movie, but if you are going to denounce him on a public forum yet laud these obvious phonies who have been ripping him off for years that is NOT going to make for a better film.
      #1017
  8. lamokio is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    fall river mass
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    783

    Posted On:
    10/31/2007 8:00am


     Style: chaos

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by johnpatricio
    This the URL to my new store ELECTRIC DREAMS http://146124.spreadshirt.com/us/US/Shop/

    20 different t-shirts for just $20.90 each (plus shipping)





    Aubrey she's gonna be pissed.
      #1018
  9. lamokio is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    fall river mass
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    Posted On:
    10/31/2007 8:10am


     Style: chaos

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Chaos
    to floyd webb and all who support his film-

    ok, this debacle has already reached mythical proportions, based solely on the massive amounts of heresay and **** talking. i initially was 100% supportive of floyd and even emailed him with a "way to go man, sounds like a great movie!" type of email when i first heard about this film a couple years ago. i have read creeden's posts and (like most of you) decided he was an ass. i posted earlier on in this thread calling him every name in the book, because frankly, his demeanor offended me. i have even tried to post sobering screeds on here in hopes of making bill 3 see the light and cooperate with floyd's project, only to have creeden repeatedly shoot my ideas down even though the rest of you agreed with me.

    then floyd posts his blog today.

    and i don't know why none of you took any pause to call him on out on some of the things he's saying, but please allow me to (hopefully) shine some light on exactly what he has said.

    first of all, it is downright pretentious of floyd who is not a martial artist himself to tell ANYONE, much less a serious fighter who has devoted his or her life to martial arts that "martial arts is all about respect". (and no floyd, those few years of training you had as a pre adolescent really don't count, i'm 34 years old and have been training consistently since i was 10, where i come from that'd be considered fairly dedicated). you as a NON PARTICIPANT cannot define the aesthetics of something you are merely an observer of. please do not forget that.

    aside from that disclaimer though, i agree with you that martial arts is all about respect. but when someone fucks up or is straight up LYING about their martial arts credentials, well then, they are not deserving of any respect from anyone. they are playing a dangerous game, and are fair game to be exposed, ridiculed, ostracized, and maybe even beaten to a bloody pulp or sued. that is exactly what this site aims to do. and would you like to know who two of the biggest offenders of being full of **** are? two people you support named ashida kim and stoffel van vuuren.

    publicly defending these two pieces of **** is one word- ignorant. it is well documented that ashida kim is a complete fucking fake, yet on patricio's board you keep defending him like he's actually a real martial artist. THE MAN IS A FUCKING LIAR FLOYD, yet you continue to make excuses for him saying "he only did what anyone with a mailorder business would have done" and "at least he kept the bdfs name alive". give me a fucking break. take 10 minutes to read the expose on him on this very site, and it should become clear to anyone with a modicum of common sense that the man is a fucking con artist piece of ****. even when i was ragging on creeden earlier on in this thread i still encouraged him and bill to stick it to asshida in court. i'd love nothing more than to see that walter mitty dickwad put out of commission once and for all. he (like a lot of "ninjas" in the 1980's) was only able to peddle his crap back in the pre- internet days when it was easier to do so.

    also, re: van vuuren. i read the lame ass emails he sent to bill 3, and frankly, i think bill was actually too nice to that asshole. he (with asshida's urging) has created a very lucrative fake bdfs in s africa with absolutely no credibility whatsoever. i read the same emails you read (the ones creeden just re- posted) and the gist of them is essentially that van vuuren seems to have no problem appointing himself the grandmaster of a martial art he has absolutely no legitimate affiliation with, and when he was caught lying he got all "oh well, you can head my organization as training brothers" in his response to bill. nevermind that the jackass copyrighted a patch he didn't even design. his emails are the equivalent of aguiar catching him driving around in a car that he stole from him, and his bitch- ass response being something like "well hey man, tell ya what, why don't we share this car!?" i'm sure that you've noticed that he's currently being debunked on another thread on this site, and good money says he'll be proven as a complete fake too.

    no amount of wishy- washy "well there's too sides to every story" crap exhonerates either one of these assholes. they're fucking liars and thieves and it doesn't take more than two braincells to realize that. you can hate bill and think he's an asshole all you want, but he has every right to go after these douches for straight up stealing the name of his organization. and like it or not bill IS the legitimate grandmaster of bdfs whether he behaves the way WE all want him to or not. i've never met the man, but his credentials are indisputable, and that is something that should be respected no matter how much you hate him for bringing you to court. it would appear that sour grapes on your part might be the main reason that you are giving airtime to to these fake bozos in the first place. you know bill will become infuriated about that.

    and honestly, i don't really think you actually believe any of these charlatain's stories, but by featuring them in your film without at least a mention that their credentials may be a bit "questionable" does not show much professionalism on your part. you will have in fact proven creeden and aguiar to have been right all along if you aim to portray bdfs as the property of con men. i'm no sure that you're NOT going to mention their sketchy claims in your movie but i certainly hope that you do.

    i don't know the deal with lawrence day (and don't have the energy to find out, sorry) but his credentials state that he put some time in with shaolin do. shaolin do is yet ANOTHER bunch of bullshitters that bullshido has de- frauded, so for him to hook up with the s africa crew is no suprise if the ever popular "these ancient secret techniques were taught to me in a nameless place by an anonymous master i can't talk about" crap is what he's drawn to.

    and since stories are the only thing these fakes have accomplished, now that we've entered the information age these crooks are all running for their lives and coming up with some VERY creative stories to try and save face. well i'm not buying it. in fact, i never did.

    do you really intend to resort to this national enquirer style of yellow journalism to pad out your film because you are pissed at bill and creeden? is that a movie you'd be proud of making? you really do not want to go that route floyd. you'll have proven creeden right all along and will have learned nothing from this site. you'll have given the snake oil salesmen invaluable free advertising and (ironically) allowed them to perjure themselves on video (which will, no doubt allow for bill aguiar to file even more lawsuits with totally legitimate reason).

    and before we get all wrapped up in the whole "martial arts is about being an honorable, respectful, mr. myagi boyscout with no character flaws" bullshit, let me clue you all in on a little something. some of the best fighters i've ever met were also some of the most utterly FUCKED up people i've ever met as well. in my quest to learn the most brutal and effective fighting techniques i could find, i've trained with criminals, killers, drug addicts, womanizers, religious zealots, and many more generally "bad" people. the myth that "real" martial artists are all lily white and perfectly moral people needs to be thrown out the window. yes, i've trained with some real characters over the years but i would never, repeat NEVER train with someone who was lying to me about their abilities. THAT is where the line should be drawn floyd, not "well ashida and van vuuren were really polite, nice guys and creeden and aguiar were dicks, so that means ashida and van vuuren are REAL martial artists and the fall river crew are just thugs."

    did you ever stop and think that perhaps ashida and van vuuren are so polite because they are putting on an act and trying to con people? there is a lot to be said for a fighter who is honest with himself and his students. i respect the fighters who don't claim to be perfect. the ones who do are usually full of ****, and if you know anything about contemporary martial arts (which is apparently not much, i'd suggest spending some more time reading articles and threads on here), you know that the days of the invincible, perfect sensei are pretty much over. yes floyd, the respect is still there, but people generally want to train with a down to earth, honest, knowledgeable martial artists who can FIGHT and back it up, not larger than life pseudo mystics who pretend to have unlocked the secrets of the universe but really only care about money.

    dante may very well have been a wacky disrespectful criminally minded sociopath with a pet lion, but guess what? he was also a talented martial artist. as a martial artist myself i am infinitely more interested in what he did for the arts and the art he created than his wacky hijynks and eccentricities. sure that's entertaining, but are you seriously going to try to sell a film full of two hours of douchebags like ashida kim, a bad bay area rock band, numerous tom- dick- and- harrys who "took one of his classes when i was 12!" and an eccentric british author (please, again, tell me, what the **** does that guy have to do with count dante other than loosely basing one of the characters in his book on him?) i mean, come on. yeah it's REALLY a film about myth and urban legend and blah blah blah but are you going to be arrogant enough to let ashida kim be on camera and talk about how he's the head of the "international black dragon fighting society" and not even at least counter with "well a lot of people say you're lying."

    good luck with your film floyd, but really, seriously, think about what you're doing. even without bill's material you can probably make a decent movie, but if you are going to denounce him on a public forum yet laud these obvious phonies who have been ripping him off for years that is NOT going to make for a better film.


    I couldn't said it better. Thank you Chaos the way you put it is exactly how I feel.
      #1019
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Posted On:
    10/31/2007 9:57am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chaos raises some good issues and asks some hard rhetorical questions that are hard questions but deserve to be addressed. I emphasize on the point about training with people who would not be considered "good" by societies standards, that has been my experience as well. Chaos hits the nail on the head when he says "people that know how to fight and hurt people, are not necessarily humble, respectful people." I am on record here as saying my karate line has a lot of criminal activity in it's past.

    I have a question accordingly for you Crreedon: Forget about Ashida Kim we all know about his claims. But the other guys, Day, The slack jawed Tai Chi guy (forgot his name) and Van Burren, aren't they claiming a liniage from Dante through one of his students? My question is what are their claims in this regard?

    My very limited understanding is that some of Dante's students may have gone with the BDFS from studying with Dante. Is that the case Creedon?

    My instinct tells me that when the word grandmaster gets used more than twice in a post describing something related to martial arts it is generally BS.
      #1020

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