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  1. pittfrog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 1:47pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Equipment purchase exclusivity & permission to cross train - What do you think?

    Is it normal for an instructor to require you to buy all MA gear from him/her, and to require you to ask permission before training elsewhere or competing?

    One of the places at which I train has that requirement about gear, but they sell shitty Century gear. I bought a pair of MMA gloves from them that had padding so thin as to be laughable, and a rough surface inside the gloves that actually cut my knuckles when I used them.
  2. Airman Kai is offline
    Airman Kai's Avatar

    AK: Giving new meaning to the word "Unfair."

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 2:05pm


     Style: Out-Of-Shape MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What kind of school is it?



  3. kismasher is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 2:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: fitness

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pittfrog
    Is it normal for an instructor to require you to buy all MA gear from him/her, and to require you to ask permission before training elsewhere or competing?

    One of the places at which I train has that requirement about gear, but they sell shitty Century gear. I bought a pair of MMA gloves from them that had padding so thin as to be laughable, and a rough surface inside the gloves that actually cut my knuckles when I used them.
    how can they require you to not go out and buy your own stuff? did you sign a contract saying that you would buy exclusively from them?
  4. pittfrog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 3:39pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's not in the contract, but the instructor has discussed it several times. Oh well, contract is almost up.
  5. Black 6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 4:28pm


     Style: Taijutsu, Army Combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is the idea that the school may turn a profit from such activities, or, in the idea of competition, because they receive funding form a sponsor, it is in their best interest to use that company's gear. In the first example, the school would buy the items at wholesale, with a discount of some sort, like bulk. They then sell it to you at the consumer price that you would have to order it from the company. You save money on not paying shipping, and your dojo makes money, thereby supporting further activities.

    That being said, this idea is only good if the equipment is good, and is something that the student would use. In a sponsor situation, you don't have much of a choice. In any other case, you may just want to bring up where the equipment falls short, and see if others agree. Then, maybe the jojo can alter its buying habits.
  6. bigguybjj is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 4:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can see an instructor wanting you to ask his permission to compete, but to train elsewhere? If you want to learn something from someone else, that is your business, and your instructor shouldn't really have a say in it.
  7. The_Tao is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 4:48pm


     Style: Proudly Shaolin Do.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sound pretty crappy. If you want to train somewhere else just don't say anything, it not they're business anyway.
  8. pittfrog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 4:51pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's hard not to say anything. I've come in with some injuries that make it kind of obvious. Plus, I grapple in both schools, and the fact that I'm rolling more is pretty apparent.
  9. Fantasy Warrior is offline
    Fantasy Warrior's Avatar

    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2007 7:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pittfrog
    Is it normal for an instructor to require you to buy all MA gear from him/her,
    It's reasonably common, especially in mainstream "TMA" community. That doesn't make it good though.

    It's a typical technique of McDojoism, i.e. exploitative commercialisation of MA. One reason that it's often exploitative is because it's sort of a hidden cost, not the sort of detail a normal person would factor in when chosing a club. Obviously it's denying the student free choice, which becomes even worse if the gear is substandard or over-priced which I think it often is.


    and to require you to ask permission before training elsewhere or competing?
    This is much less common and generally VERY bad. About the only legitimate excuse for this policy is if the club is producing serious combat sports competitors in full-contact styles where there is a competitive risk - but even that should only really be restricted to not training at clubs likely to be training opponents for your 'teammates'. So the whole MMA/sport MA example is pretty limited in scope; it shouldn't apply to kata or point-sparring comp styles etc because obviously the price of loosing is far lower.

    IMHO
    Last edited by Fantasy Warrior; 7/26/2007 7:42pm at .
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  10. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2007 7:09am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Tao
    Sound pretty crappy. If you want to train somewhere else just don't say anything, it not they're business anyway.
    If it was a rule when you signed the contract, I strongly disagree with this statement. You can't bash schools for dishonest practices if you are going to be dishonest with them. If they were dishonest first, you should end the relationship, not violate the agreement. If it wasn't a rule when you signed the contract, and there was no language in the contract that allows them to alter the rules without your approval, that's another story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kickcatcher
    This is much less common and generally VERY bad. About the only legitimate excuse for this policy is if the club is producing serious combat sports competitors in full-contact styles where there is a competitive risk - but even that should only really be restricted to not training at clubs likely to be training opponents for your 'teammates'
    Actaully, I think there multiple reasons for an exclusivity agreement, and saying its generally VERY bad is a gross overstatement. I'm not going to rehash why here, since it was pretty thoroughly discussed by myself and others in a fairly recent thread.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57008

    Long story short, some people thought it meant a school must suck, and that there was no good reason for it.

    I and a few others strongly disagreed, provided the school was up front about the policy. You can read the reasons that we felt its a reasonable policy for a school to adopt, even if its more restrictive for the students. They center around reputation concerns, lititgation worries and training consistency for newer students.

    I don't have any major objection with a school requiring equipment to be purchased through for the sake of consisteny and safety.

    That being said, if you already have the model / brand of a piece of a equipment they require, you shouldn't have to purchase it again - you're already being consistent. Bringing it in for them to check out should be enough. Also, the equipment needs to be good quality and reasonably priced (its alright if its not the cheapest soruce, as long as its not significantly out of line in price with other sellers). Sounds like that's the problem here.
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