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  1. sempaiman is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 12:44pm


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Can a Fraud make legit....?

    What if, your instructor obtained ranked rather questionably, but he promted you rather legit, and you take it serious and are very conscientious about promoting your students, are you or your students a fraud? Any opinions.....
  2. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
    FickleFingerOfFate's Avatar

    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 12:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sempaiman
    What if, your instructor obtained ranked rather questionably, but he promted you rather legit, and you take it serious and are very conscientious about promoting your students, are you or your students a fraud? Any opinions.....

    The real question there is, did your instructor learn all of the art, and is all of his technique and applications accurate?

    Anything he didn't learn can't be passed down, and no matter how conscientious you may be, you cannot pass down what you never learned to begin with.

    If you suppliment what is lacking with other things from other arts or disciplines, then the art being transferred is not the original art. Not necessarily better or worse, just different, and not able to be ranked.

    IMHO.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  3. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What if ...

    ... your medical degree came from a non-accredited medical school?

    ... your marriage certificate was signed by a person not authorized to act as an agent of the state?

    ... you bought the Brooklyn Bridge from someone who doesn't own it?

    ... you are given a genuine cop's badge from an impersonator?


    Do you think any of the above is a problem - even if you can heal the sick/have a big reception/paint the cables/patrol the neighborhood?

    Yes, you would be living a lie. You are a fraud. Case closed.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/07/2007 1:07pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. polishillusion is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Losing Weight

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another version of this question is -

    "Can you learn to fight from a fake Master?"

    and the answer is

    " If you ran 3 hours a day, lifted weights 3 hours a day, and sparred alive with your friends on the side, then YES".
  5. polishillusion is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:12pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Losing Weight

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    What if ...

    ... your medical degree came from a non-accredited medical school?
    Plenty of Americans go to non accredited schools out of country and set up practices here, bad example.
  6. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:14pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by polishillusion
    Another version of this question is -

    "Can you learn to fight from a fake Master?"

    and the answer is

    " If you ran 3 hours a day, lifted weights 3 hours a day, and sparred alive with your friends on the side, then YES".
    Horrible example.

    You are learning from your friends not your fake master.
  7. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
    FickleFingerOfFate's Avatar

    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by polishillusion
    Another version of this question is -

    "Can you learn to fight from a fake Master?"

    and the answer is

    " If you ran 3 hours a day, lifted weights 3 hours a day, and sparred alive with your friends on the side, then YES".

    You cannot pass rank on in an art that you don't hold valid rank in. The teaching may be very good, and the students may learn a lot, but the rank will not be valid.

    Can you train a fighter, Maybe.

    Can you pass on valid rank, No.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  8. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by polishillusion
    Plenty of Americans go to non accredited schools out of country and set up practices here, bad example.

    Phrasing mistake. They still need to pass the accreditation exams and obtain a license from the state.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. polishillusion is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Losing Weight

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Horrible example.

    You are learning from your friends not your fake master.

    Thats the point, LULz.
  10. polishillusion is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    9/07/2007 1:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Losing Weight

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FickleFingerOfFate
    You cannot pass rank on in an art that you don't hold valid rank in. The teaching may be very good, and the students may learn a lot, but the rank will not be valid.

    Can you train a fighter, Maybe.

    Can you pass on valid rank, No.

    There is a question in perception..... what if you do not know the master is fake? How relative is the reality of your non-qualification IF at that point you have the skill level to back it up? I mean, I do not mind calling a 6th degree in Judo a 6th degree in Judo if he fights like a 6th degree in Judo.

    The ultimate question leads to "What does rank mean?" and the answer is usually "Nothing" or "Fight skill is what matters".

    There are plenty of Ashida Kim's that pass "VALID" ranks in their styles, hell, i could become a grandmaster tommorow if I wanted. I care much more about the "rank" of the person in fighting.
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