I reads good. M. Triangles is correct that you were describing a monkey grip.
The fingers do slide apart some, but using a gable for the choke puts a lot of strain on your own wrists (for some reason I can only do the choke with that grip on one side). Like I said, the grip is new to me as well but felt better right away.
Ok, got ya.
I usually just grab my thumb for extra pivot power on that choke :) ...but I can definitely see how that could be considered a bad habit and may one day result in my thumb being ripped off by myself :XXjester: So far no such problems.
Also if you're doing it wrong with the Gable Grip (the way that may feel more natural at first) simply switch your hands (bottom to top, top to bottom) it can take a lot of pressure off your wrists.
Last edited by M-Tri; 9/17/2007 10:42am at .
No, I've got the right hand on top. As a test, make both grips sitting at your computer and bring your elbows towards one another as if you're putting the top elbow to the ground.
With the standard grip you come down in a papercutter motion. The problem with that is that the pivot point is going to be on the ground when you're actually doing it. So, to get enough pressure across the throat you end up putting a lot of pressure on your wrists. Trying the same thing hooking fingers, when you making the papercutter motion the pivot point would be around 1.5 inches off the ground. As a result, it is going to be easier to get across the throat without torquing the **** out of your wrists.
So myself and HanktheTank were at the Karo seminar in Toronto yesterday.
All the throws Karo did ended up in regular kesa as far as arm position goes.
His set up for throws were from wrestling style shoots from the opponent so one arm controlling the guys wrist and the other going over the head and grabbing under the arm pit.
Of course once he lands he immediately goes from Kesa to side or for an arm bar
Anyways, because it's judo, his goal on his throws is to launch the guys head in the mat and / or land on their chest.
(which BTW is exactly what his 240 pound assistant did to me yesterday and I am in fucking pain)
Anyways he did demonstrate uchi mata with underhook but we didn't get to practice.
The other Hari ogoshi and tai otoshi throws all went to kesa.
of his goal of getting full body impact on the opponent.
So I would say from an impact point of view, from throws regular kesa is the way to go.
Here is a thought on that:
If you use a throw like the ones above, if you do not transition IMMEDIATELY to underarm control, your opponent can grab around the waist on impact and try to keep the momentum going and roll you over so you are now on the bottom of side control.
I will say that, as a Judo guy, I have MANY TIMES thrown a perfect throw - maybe even got a nice smashing effect, but lost the control and been rolled. It happens when you put 100% effort into the throw...and the other guy just goes with it instead of resisting as much as you had anticipated... only to roll you right over.
I bring this up because when you concentrate on regular Kesa on impact it does allow your opponent to grab around your hips. And as all good grapplers know - hips are the center of gravity. Don't let your opponent have that kind of control.
So I tried to hold down the most flexible and approximately equally skilled guy in my class with regular Kesa on a no-Gi day. I have a really solid kesa pin in general and can hold it for days with a Gi on but he took my back pretty fast. So I'm ruling it our for no-Gi except as a way to clear the arm and then transition. I am still pretty confident in Gi against less flexible guys. YMMV.
Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
Ley me clarify some stuff I saw in the Karo seminar.
He didn't unfortuanatly show a lot of transition from throw to sub. (remember about the 2 1/2 point I was painfull hurt so I may have missed a bit)
Basically I remember him saying he went from kesa to side control immediately after the throw.
His throws are intended to damage, to either drop the guy on his face or land on his stomach.
He had two types of throws defensive and offensive.
The defensive ones were in reaction to shoots, and the grips were the easies ones to get quickly which is over the head.
He did touch on his uchi mata which is a offensive throw and comes from digging in for the over hook from the clinch
His O Soto set up was wrist and head clinch while keeping distance to avoid the strike.
There was another variation with Kimura grip but the goal is to hold on to the kimura after the throw and get him there.
For MMA I am wondering if there's a point to going for the underhook kesa after a throw or just going to side control and hammer fisting the nose or whatever.
I was too busy rubbing my chest and trying not to cry during the Q @ A