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  1. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 12:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hon Kesa Gatame submissions

    Hi.

    As a BJJ newbie and a former judoka, Ive noticed I am usually able to get to the Hon Kesa Gatame position (hip throws usually leave me there, and I can usually grabt the neack and the arm and pass the guard even when I start sparring on the ground). For those who dont know, this is the Hon Kesa Gatame.

    http://www.judoclubbrunssum.nl/knopp...esa-gatame.gif

    Now, getting there, either using a hip throw or moving from side control is relatively easy for me (Im used to competitive judo rules), but I believe this position does not allow many submissions.

    I usually use a move my BJJ coach taught me he called "leque": I put the arm Im controlling over my right knee and press it downwards with my left leg, while holding the hand (thumb up) with my own hand. It is a somewhat crude submission, but I have used it successfully against people more experienced than me (some blue belts and even a couple of purple belts), and at the moment it is my best submission.

    But everyone in my gym is now wary of that move, so Id like to diversify a bit - and Id like to practice other submissions from the HKG, specially because I can still get many people there, even if I cant always finish them.

    Now, the coach also taught a transition from the HKG to a triangle choke, but Id like to know what else can I do while keeping that position. All help is appreciated.

    Thanks.

    PS: Did a search, found nothing, etc.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  2. Goju - Joe is online now
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 12:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
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    You're one day to late for this topic

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59686
  3. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 12:44pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oops.

    Well, in my defense I had no idea that position was called scarf hold in english. In portuguese we call it "fundamental".

    Still, I suppose the subject of that thread is not the same as this one. I am not questioning HKG (yes, many BJJ blue belts believe it is a shitty position because you supposedly can get the other guys back), I actually KNOW it works - I just want more submission options.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 12:47pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've tried to tell people that I "know" it works too. No one believes me :(
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 12:52pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will however tell you about my favorite super deadly sekret sub from kesa. Its similar to the one you are doing except instead of a straight armbar you put their arm in the americana position. Then hook the knee of your lower leg over their hand. Next put both hands on the back of their head then slowly push your hips forward while pulling their head up. NEVER do this fast. It is very damaging if they don't tap.

    Its the second move in this video but I finish it a little differently.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW7CpZUpMyE
  6. Bustardo is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 1:46pm


     Style: BJJ/Pekiti Tersia/Hsing-I

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doesn't that crank their spine? Or am I understanding that wrong?
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    God bless you for that video WhiteShark, thanks a lot. Ill try that move next time I roll.

    Vince, your sub sounds a bit dangerous to me, you pull too much of your weight off the ground during the movement. HKG is a solid pin, but I wouldnt push it that far...

    Incidentally, I think those that say it doesnt work simply have never faced a decent judoka. Heathens.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 2:00pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bustardo
    Doesn't that crank their spine? Or am I understanding that wrong?
    Mine? Yes, it is a neck crank and a shoulder attack.
  9. BSDaemon is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 2:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another thread on this topic from ~2 years ago:

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22566

    you fail at t3h s34rch
  10. WingChun Lawyer is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/06/2007 2:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Also, when I visited Neko's dojo, I saw one of the blackbelts showing a sub from kesa that involved (using Soju's pic of kesa) 1) grabbing the pants at the right knee with the right hand (keeping the forearm right at the neck) and 2) pushing the forehead down with the left hand. Me no think that sub is legal in Judo - if/when I go there again, I'll ask for a breakdown of the sub.
    Another one from El Macho. It sounds promising.

    YES, I suck at searching. But hey, this thread was made specifically to discuss HKG submissions, I dont think this was ever done here.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
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