The Koryu connection is in all probability Bullshit. I would like to dovetial off the other post of the guy who went to Japan as he knows how rare a legitimate Koryu presence in the states is. My friend, who is a takenuchi Ryu (spelling?) guy knows of maybe 4 other people outside Japan in the art. And he got entry cause he was with a Japanese women.
Very rare and the claims to the contrary flow abundantly. Everybody these days wants Koryu Legitimacy and this guy appears to be no acception.
The 3500 block of Oakland right? Okay, that is where I thought the place used to be. The other side of the alley of William Ho's Chinesse restaurant? I seem to remember an advertisement in the front store window that caught my eye, durring the late 1980's early 90's ninja craze. I so wanted to "train" ninjitsu and was jealous of one girl in my class that did "ninjitsu".
Originally Posted by jhill0129
Some kids I went to middle school with claimed to train ninjitsu and I being 13, believed them to able to kill with their bare hands. Of course some of the TKD (BK Yun's) people considered their instructor to be a ninja. I happened to hear that crap when I was a bit older and more of a skeptic on the matters of the ninja.
Oakland Ave; that was the place I had assumed the ninja training was done at. Looking back I had always assumed it was Genbukan school, seeing as Michael Coleman of the Genbukan was said to have had his first dojo in Shorewood, before moving to Brady St. I wonder if the two were connected or if it is just by chance they were both is Shorewood. I'll have to ask one of my friends who trained with Coleman in the early 1990's. I think he said that he trained with Coleman when the dojo was in Shorewood.
I guess you never know when things are happening in your own back yard that you'll later recall and question.
Edit: I just found a chached version of a very old (it was seemingly out dated then) address listing that has the Futen dojo (Genbukan) listed at the 3514 N. Oakland address. This would put the Genbukan dojo on the same block (with in a few feet) as the Ninkage dojo, if it is not the exact same address. I wonder if there is a suite number I can find? I will try and go to the Shorewood historical society if I have time and see what the community phone records have listed for that address and any relavent date info.
Here is the address list:
This is from a now defunked site, but google had a chached version of it. The list is A-Z and has Futen dojo at the Oakland address and the Brady. Ninkage just has a zip code no street number. I am wondering what the history of Ninkage dojo is in relation to (if any) of the Genbukan dojo. The Genbukan dojo/Futen dojo has a very good reputation here in the Milwaukee area. I've never heard any thing bad about it, even from former/ ex students.
Any insights jhill?
Last edited by romba_one; 6/08/2008 7:13pm at .
Yes, sir, it was the same building. Ninkage Ryu was there for a few years (the years we trained there, around '89-'91) and after Musashi was evicted or lost the place, Futen Dojo moved in. I remember Futen only being there briefly, as well, then moving to Brady. I think they have a school in Bay View, too.
After the Ninkage Ryu dojo on Oakland closed, Musashi briefly had a place in a Downtown warehouse. I'm not exactly sure which building - my friend would remember. It was a dirty place and he didn't last there, either. I think at that point he was down to, maybe, half a dozen students. I was talking with my friend recently and we were reminiscing about those days. We just couldn't figure out why so many people walked away from Ninkage Ryu. We were in children's classes at the time, but were also invited to a couple adult classes throughout the week. There used to be tons of people in our Ketsugo and Mind & Meditation classes. After a while the numbers started to dwindle and, by the time the Shorewood school closed, Musashi really had no one; not even the loyal supporters that were there from the beginning.
Also, I know for a fact Musashi was hurting for money. My friend remembers Musashi telling his mom (who was a student at the time), that he had lost his apartment and was sleeping in the dojo. He gave her a sob story and she gave him some cash. I'm sure he was touching a lot of the adult students for money. There was also a time when he was collecting money from students for a fund to send him to Japan to visit his father's grave. BS! It seems like he's been hustling for years. He came from the East Coast - Jersey, I think - went to Milwaukee then Atlanta, now he's in California.
One of things my buddy and I were discussing was his "bare-knuckle" fighting record. It was like, 144 wins, 129 by knock out. Why hasn't anyone heard of this in the martial arts community? That seems like an awesome record. We saw that his name is listed in the USKA Hall of Fame, but that's it. No records, no nothing. He could have completely made that up.
Anyway, if you want to read his bio and see his pic (if you haven't already) check this out:
Okay I did some looking and found a confusing mess reguarding the 3514 N. Oakland Ave address and the dojos that have been there. I think I have a rough time line figured out as far as it goes with Ninkage Ryu in Shorewood/Milwaukee. Maybe this will help some one if they are looking into this Musashi persons' back ground.
The TKD instructor B.K. Yun and his Black Belt Academy, listed as "teaching Ancient Korean martial arts" (odd TKD was only 40 years old at the time), was in that address from 1985 to late 1989. January 1990 "Tai Musashi" of "Shadow Systems LTD" opened his school under the name of "Ninkage Ryu". At some point he left and Futen dojo came in, which then left likely for their current Brady St locale and then the place became a dance studio in 1995. I found no records of Futen dojo being a legal occupant, so I must assume one of two things....the record is missing due to piss poor file keeping by my "scource" or Mr Coleman came and went in true ninja fashion.
Records also list "Tai Musashi's" address in Kenosha Wisconsin. Oddly enough there is a letter which seems to be an 'R' scribbled out right before the name is printed "Tai Musashi" in a file I saw. One could speculate that this is somebody starting to write 'Randy Moore' and then deciding to go with the Asian sounding name.
Jhill what else do you know of the pre 1990 back ground of this Musashi person? Also do you live, or have you lived in the Milwaukee or Shorewood area?
Edit: Oh yeah I forgot it looks lik Musashi was in Milwaukee till 1994 at least.
Last edited by romba_one; 6/09/2008 7:36pm at .
I studied with Sabutai in 1981 and 1982, in Glendale Heights, Illinois. He was an amazing martial artist and teacher. I personally witnessed and experienced many things with Sabutai which were ... hmmm ... unexplainable, contrary to logical possibilities, and yet they really did happen. Honestly, if I told you some of these events, no doubt that the nay-sayers here would be screaming "BS" at the top of their lungs. So, all that I will tell you is that Sabutai is not only "the real deal", he is much more than that. I understand that this forum would like more information than that, but due to the nature of Sabutai's knowledge and capabilities, it just wouldn't be appropriate to discuss. If you really want to know more, go meet him and see what he may be willing to share with you, but know that he will already be aware of your intentions.
For those who may be genuinely interrested in Sabutai's past, I'll gladly share what I know, as best as memory serves me ...
Another poster mentioned the name "Randy Moore". That was Sabutai's birth name. Whether he uses it anymore, I don't know.
Sabutai did tell me (and others) about his studies with his Master, and about many experinces with him. He was like a father to Sabutai, and it was obviously still a very painful subject back then, as I'd imagine it still is. Those of you who have any doubt about this relationship, rest assured, it's true.
Sabutai's fighting record is the real McCoy, but I will say no more about it. If you really want to know more about that, ask him. Maybe he'll tell you more, maybe he won't.
A subject which I'm rather uncomfortable talking about (since it seems to be a main topic of hot debate, to put it nicely) is Sabutai's ... let's say ... use of energy. There are no parlor tricks, smoke and mirrors, or magician secrets. No, he cannot see through the blindfolds, he doesn't have to. Yes, he does know where you are in the room, without seeing or hearing you. Yes, he can heal ... but he can also give you a headache, from miles away! He can also do much, MUCH more.
Is Sabutai somewhat of (for lack of a better term) an oddity? Absolutely. An amazing, wonderful oddity. But is he some sort of fake? No, not in any way. He'd have absolutely no reason or motive to lie, mislead, or embellish. HONESTLY, nothing he could make-up could be as amazing as he truly is. He's one of a kind.
So, there you have it. I've told you what I know of Sabutai Musashi (at least what I'm willing to share). Anyone wishing to further this witch hunt ... I'd suggest that you take it up directly with Sabutai before proceeding.
Originally Posted by Michael_F
On potential motive for lying about his past, might to be to drum up business for his martial arts and alternative health services. Wouldn't you agree?
No, I wouldn't agree, not at all. You're grasping at straws in order to continue to attempt to discredit him, and honestly, you're just wasting your time. There are plenty of fakes and phonies out there to expose, and I'm ALL for that, but Sabutai is the genuine article. I'd stake my life on it. I'd stake my kids' lives on it.
Originally Posted by CrackFox
If you really have any doubts about his past or present, rather than attempt a blind witch hunt, I encourage you to contact Sabutai and ask him your specific questions, with respect. This forum has already attempted some juvenile infiltration scheme, so why not try the logical, adult method instead? If the goal of this forum is to authenticate, then it should be done properly, not by flames and games.
Then you're not being objective.
Originally Posted by Michael_F
Michael_F Is there any evidence to believe your claims? Would Sabutai be willing to submit to carefully conducted tests of his claims, such as by James Randi? It turns out to be very easy to fool gullible people with supposed supernatural powers. Is there really any reason to suppose you are not one of these?
Jeffrey, those are fine questions, but do you know what I think would be a much more interesting question?
I wonder what Michael_F's relationship is with this Randy Moore (Sabutai) chap - considering that he's willing to stake his children's lives on Moore's reputation?
Originally Posted by Michael_F
Last edited by CrackFox; 9/09/2008 3:31pm at .