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  1. neondragoneyes is offline

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    Jun 2007
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2007 1:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido/aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ninkage ryu bujutsu and Sabutai Musashi

    I recently saw this anglo calling himself Musashi Sabotai, or Sabotai Musashi (for the western naming convention) give a demonstration on Ninkageryu. Has anyone else heard of this guy, or seen one of his demonstrations? He claims to have inherited the style from Musashi Yoshiaki, but the familly name is, well, very obviously drawn from the famous swordsman of the late 1500's to early 1600's, and the personal name coincidentally happens to be the personal name of the shogun who's bakufu was in power during the time of said swordsman.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2007 1:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (*groan*)

    Do you have where is he located?

    Do you have a link to a website?

    Do you have a link to his demonstration or other videos?
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 9/04/2007 1:57pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
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  3. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2007 1:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by neondragoneyes
    I recently saw this anglo calling himself Musashi Sabotai, or Sabotai Musashi (for the western naming convention) give a demonstration on Ninkageryu. Has anyone else heard of this guy, or seen one of his demonstrations? He claims to have inherited the style from Musashi Yoshiaki, but the familly name is, well, very obviously drawn from the famous swordsman of the late 1500's to early 1600's, and the personal name coincidentally happens to be the personal name of the shogun who's bakufu was in power during the time of said swordsman.
    I met and trained with him. The only thing we covered with Jojutsu and he was very well versed at it but it looked like contemporary Shinto Muso Ryu to me. I remember him telling me that it was an off shot of Shinkage ryu, never confirmed. There has been a lto that is not confirmed or supported but in the since of fairness, a white guy getting legitimately "adopted" and talking on a Japanese name has been done before by very legit Koryu stylist but its very rare.
    ______
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  4. Chimaira is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2007 4:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And, here I come out of lurker mode for yet another bit of my valuable insight.

    First, the link:
    http://www.healing-wellness.com/musashi.html

    I went to his demo at Dragon*Con last year because I was curious and skeptical. Some of it was interesting, most of it made my butt work button holes.

    Mainly, the demo consisted of self defense through your typical "grab my wrist" scenario, and some weapon work by his students. To play devil's advocate (my favorite pinball game, I might add), the stuff that he did looked clean so he was obviously trained in something, and not just a jackass in hakama. Now, on the other side of the coin, his internal energy stuff in the demo is a little questionable. He did this bit where he put a vegetable in a volunteer's hand and cut it while blindfolded, using only his ki to guide him. He also told some quips of fights that he was in that were a little out there to be believable. For example, he said some guy challenged him to a fight and so he brought a baseball bat. Not to hit the guy, but to toss it to him as a distraction so as to pummel him while his hands were full. I dunno...

    The thing that is most questionable is his bio. First of all, his first name is "Sabutai", not "Sabotai". Historically, Sabutai as a name refers to a Mongul general. And having a last name of Musashi obviously evokes Miyamoto Musashi. The name combination is a little odd. Next, as mentioned, is the adoption story. Coupled with wild claims of being undefeated in full contact and NHB fights and having taught Special Forces, etc. are general red flags.

    On an aside, it was kinda funny seeing all the Narutards at the demo in awe and admiration, but I digress.
    Last edited by Chimaira; 9/04/2007 4:41pm at .
  5. bushi_no_ki is offline
    bushi_no_ki's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2007 8:42pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As for a viable SD System, it will have some benefits properly trained, but with obvious limitations. As for koryu, looks legit. As for the white guy with a japanese name, like Asia said, it's been known to happen. As for the miracle story, hey, who really knows. As for the competition claims, definite red flags there.
  6. neondragoneyes is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 10:09am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: aikido/aikijujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for your input. I attended his demonstration at Dragon*Con, because I was first interested, then skeptical (as I attended as a last minute thing, and was not aware of the demonstration til I saw it on the schedule, as I was looking over it that morning). His technique did look pretty good, but I was put off by the "ki" part of the demonstration, and some of the claims he made. I do not know how to go about an investigation.
  7. budoboy is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 3:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He came to my school in Northern California a few years ago and taught a class on sensitivity work (blindfolded stuff) for free. Nice guy and what he taught he seemed decent at. He made some claims that he could cut paper with a sword without touching it but couldn't do it anymore because he got in a bad car crash. His training history is obviously a crock in my humble opinion (I have 16 years of Japanese martial arts experience and have trained in Japan for several months in total).

    Jeff
  8. jhill0129 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2008 10:50am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sabutai Musashi=Randy Moore

    I trained with Sabutai Musashi in Milwaukee, WI around '90-'91. He opened a dojo on the East Side in a suburb called Shorewood. I was 13 at the time and my friend and his brother joined with me. They were 11 and 17, respectively. I have to admit that my 11-year-old friend and I were fairly impressionable youths and believed a lot of his stories. Looking back, I have to say that mostly everything he told us was dubious.

    He claimed to be in a car accident, not in '91 like I've been reading on these forums, but much earlier than that. The story was something to the effect that he was in a snow storm and his car broke down. When he got out of the car to see why it wasn't running, a car came along and blindsided him, breaking his back. He claimed that he "commando crawled" in the snow for miles until he made it to a hospital. At the hospital, the doctor told him that he would never walk again. He claimed that he got out of bed at that moment, walked over to the doctor (he said it took him 30 mins to walk across the room) and got nose-to-nose with him and said, "You're a liar!" My friend reminded me of another version of this story where he walked over with his broken back and did a round-house kick to the doctor's head, stopping just before striking him.

    Anyway, I can recall numerous stories (too numerous to post here) about him, his background, history, etc. that just don't make sense; they defy logic and common sense.

    About his skills: He definitely had martial arts training. He had a grasp on techniques and probably borrowed from many martial arts styles to create the Ninkage Ryu system. The blindfolded techniques were pretty amazing, but I also think there was a "trick" to that.

    He is a smooth talker and had a good hustle. After a while, we didn't know what was true and what was made up. It's sad because we really looked up to him and after the school closed down from lack of students and possible rent default, we got older and wiser and reflective. We realized that most of his stories were B.S.

    If anyone has any questions or would like to hear more about my experiences with him, please let me know.
  9. romba_one is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 9:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: just started grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hold it a minute here...

    Jhill:
    Where in Shorewood was his dojo? What Street, if you remember?
  10. jhill0129 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 10:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    N. Oakland Avenue, 1/2 block north of E. Edgewood Ave..
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