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  1. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 1:43pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by danjo
    Who has done this?
    Sam Kuoha of Kara Ho Kempo appears to have done a good job. Tat Mae Wong has done well, although there have been some negative comments about a couple of his schools. GM Pui Chan of Wah Lum Acadamy. Only a couple of schools but profitable and high quality. Unfortunately, there are hundreds of examples of just the opposite. It's not impossible to commercialize and maintain quality, it's just damned difficult to do so.
  2. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 1:57pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by draygin
    As I said Parker did not COMERCIALIZE. You seem to not understand the difference. Parker did not hyper promote or add crap like 100 extra techs and create a false background for his art. He did not go out and claim everyone was his student. Parker also developed the system the Tracy's claim they retraced back to Mitose and got the original forms and all that BS. The Tracy's like Mitose are Con men. Their system is not Mitose, Parker nor Chow. It's BS. There are some good Tracy schools, but they are not true Tracy's since Tracy's was a flawed system Parker tought them knowing they intended to try to beat him to the punch for wide spread dojos. He gave them a qube with six painted sides and they thought they had Rubic's cube. They still can't get over it.
    According to some of his early students who later became his instructors and still hold GM Parker in high regard, Ed Parker watered down EPAK for commercial consumption, keeping some stuff back for his personal students. Would that, or would that not be considered commercialization under your definition?

    I'm certainly not defending the Tracy brothers business practices but, as I've said before, I'm not about to put Parker on a pedestal as a saint. I know a lot of background information from a person who was there at the time and there are two sides to every story. I also think that getting into the "Tracy vs. Parker" debate brings all of kenpo down. If you like the training your getting and it fits your needs, great. If not, find a different school.
  3. draygin is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 2:55pm


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca
    According to some of his early students who later became his instructors and still hold GM Parker in high regard, Ed Parker watered down EPAK for commercial consumption, keeping some stuff back for his personal students. Would that, or would that not be considered commercialization under your definition?

    I'm certainly not defending the Tracy brothers business practices but, as I've said before, I'm not about to put Parker on a pedestal as a saint. I know a lot of background information from a person who was there at the time and there are two sides to every story. I also think that getting into the "Tracy vs. Parker" debate brings all of kenpo down. If you like the training your getting and it fits your needs, great. If not, find a different school.
    I trained with Frank Trejo and he said Mr. Parker only removed redundant techniques. He did not "water down" anything. Of coarse private training will provide more insights. Training with Mr. Trejo gave me the opportunity to speak to many of the people who really know what's what.



    This is Bullshido and I am not putting Parker on a pedestal but, no, Mr. Parker did not commercialize it. He had essentially two different ways of training people, one was more academic and self defense oriented the other more of a fully combative and sport training. You can teach someone self defense but not forcing them to fight is not the same as watering it down. Mr. Parker also didnít go around lying about things the way the Tracy's did.

    Sorry if it offends, but the Tracys have soiled the image of Kenpo and made a mockery of it.
  4. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 7:12pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by draygin
    I trained with Frank Trejo and he said Mr. Parker only removed redundant techniques. He did not "water down" anything. Of coarse private training will provide more insights. Training with Mr. Trejo gave me the opportunity to speak to many of the people who really know what's what.



    This is Bullshido and I am not putting Parker on a pedestal but, no, Mr. Parker did not commercialize it. He had essentially two different ways of training people, one was more academic and self defense oriented the other more of a fully combative and sport training. You can teach someone self defense but not forcing them to fight is not the same as watering it down. Mr. Parker also didnít go around lying about things the way the Tracy's did.

    Sorry if it offends, but the Tracys have soiled the image of Kenpo and made a mockery of it.
    Frank Trejo is a good instructor, no complaints there. Mine happens to be one of Tracys first five BBs and was a personal friend of Ed Parker who used to stay at his house when he was in northern California. He was present when a lot of this stuff was going down.

    You're not offending me by putting down how the Tracys do business. One, I don't do Tracys kenpo and two, I don't care for their business ethics at all.

    It's a shame we can't limit your last sentence to just the Tracys. There's a lot of truly shitty kenpo out there.
  5. steveg54 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2007 4:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by draygin
    As I said Parker did not COMERCIALIZE. You seem to not understand the difference. Parker did not hyper promote or add crap like 100 extra techs and create a false background for his art. He did not go out and claim everyone was his student. Parker also developed the system the Tracy's claim they retraced back to Mitose and got the original forms and all that BS. The Tracy's like Mitose are Con men. Their system is not Mitose, Parker nor Chow. It's BS. There are some good Tracy schools, but they are not true Tracy's since Tracy's was a flawed system Parker tought them knowing they intended to try to beat him to the punch for wide spread dojos. He gave them a qube with six painted sides and they thought they had Rubic's cube. They still can't get over it.

    You have it right!!..Parker said that he could teach you the entire system and still never show you kenpo. In other words-he could show you the techniques and forms but never show you how to make it work. WHat the Tracy's have is a collection of un related techniques and a bunch of forms that serve no useful purpose except to allow the school owner to separate students from their money. Parker Kenpo if taught...and learned correctly WORKS. Tracy is a waste of time and money. Still there will be many here continuing to argue the point. Apparently people who look at 'Bullshido' cant recognize Bullshido. :)
  6. MonkeyRyu1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2008 4:44pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju Ryu Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just in case anyone was interested. I found these clips of Hanchi Bruce Juchnik of Kosho Ryu Kempo on You Tube. You can see for yourself if it looks like Mitose's Kempo.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkQQMBSM8l8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My3aPQJDxGQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLC29qD0AoE
    Last edited by MonkeyRyu1; 2/03/2008 4:47pm at .
  7. ironfist666 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2008 9:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kempo, Kosho, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hanshi juchnik is sick. i have seen some pof his demos and his skill is undeniable. i am attending a seminar of his on march 4 and 5
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