Posted On:9/04/2007 4:17am
Style: Not much at the moment
Originally Posted by Cullion
I saw Psychomongoose and Jawdy (who both have backgrounds in ZSK/WSK) spar standup at the first Oxford throwdown and they looked like they knew what they were doing (Jawdy had also been training in kickboxing for a while). I have also seen videos on these styles' websites of instructors competing with success in full contact.
Their own sites explain it originated as a mix of northern shaolin/longfist CMA and TKD, without any absurd claims of 'secret monk from the mountains'-type bullshido CMA lineage.
It might not turn out to be your taste but I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as bullshit.
Thanks, though I never claim to be a good fighter by any means. But, if you spar every lesson then you're bound to pick up some knowledge!
The only correction here is that ZSK is much more open than WSK. The history is all there on their website, unlike WSK, which is less specific. You have to join to get the offically history, which I've never really tried to verify.
Also, WSK doesn't compete in the ring anymore. Though I have no idea why not.
Just waiting for the paperboy.
Posted On:9/04/2007 5:48am
psychomongoose, since you have actually trained with them i will take your word for it.
but i must agree with your observation they arent advertising themselves well! ;-)
Posted On:9/04/2007 7:26am
Style: Trad Ju Jitsu
Some time ago, a work colleague (and Arsehole) revealed he did WSK. It was taught at Swiss Cottage in North London. Subsequently I learned (can't remember how) that the Grandmaster had been 3rd Dan TKD and after a dispute, he left to form his own style hence WSK.
His wife, Tina, I think was noted as a Breaker and in various flyers was photographed breaking Ice Blocks and was featured in various UK TV programmes demonstrating the same.
FWIW, Sensei Mark Fitz-Gerald, 5th Dan Ju Jitsu was 1st Dan WSK before switching to Jikishin Ju Jitsu (following his having seen a demo).
Hope this adds something and regrets if it doesn't.
Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor
Posted On:9/10/2007 7:11am
Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ
Originally Posted by PsychoMongoose
...though they split of an formed Zhuan Shu Kwan (ask Slideyfoot about that, he trains with them).
Pretty much all in the wiki I wrote about it a while back. In short, I'm told that ZSK trains slightly more 'realistically' than WSK, but from what WSK people have said to me (or at least the two I've met), its almost exactly the same except for the name.
My description is normally kickboxing with traditional trimmings, so I'm guessing that largely goes for WSK too.
Originally Posted by Asriel
Amongst our conversations about Zhuan Shu Kwan Slidey did tell me that it was very TKD ish
Yeah, the kicks, but the sparring is more like kickboxing, as there aren't any limits on target area (i.e., you can strike the head and legs). Generally heavier contact too, especially at higher levels (which either means higher grades, or people who have experience in other stuff: plenty of people from other styles have trained at the Warwick club over the years).
not a lot of internet footage to comment on
There is footage of one of the ZSK instructors, Glen Cudjoe, in my gallery on here (should be on page two, under '[Video] Glen Cudjoe'). If that doesn't work, also on the Warwick ZSK site.
Glen originally got his black belt in WSK, then moved over to ZSK with his teacher during the split. Not entirely representative of ZSK or WSK, as he's a big powerful guy with lots of experience, but gives you some idea.
I'll finish with a description that other WSKer I mentioned gave about two years ago on Cyberkwoon:
Originally Posted by Darkdragon
I don't want to hijack this, but I thought I would just reinforce the idea that WSK and ZSK do appear to be very similar. I would therefore go as far as saying that Slidey's appraisal of ZSK largely applies to WSK.
I think the chief difference I deduced from conversations/posts on the subject is that ZSK (certainly Slidey's class-I have no idea how they vary) is far more relaxed. WSK appears to have gone down the 'business' route. The multitude of fees and the requirement for you to wear the uniform (which is quite expensive) to every class would suggest this.
The WSK class was also very rigid-instructors weren't allowed to vary their classes at all, so they ended up being the same boring old format. It would therefore appear that more variety and therefore better tuition is to be had from ZSK.
The connection between the two 'versions' is shrouded in the mystery which seems to exist in many styles with lineages and internal politics. It leaves me cold, and is one of the many reasons that I stopped training in the style. I couldn't get a straight answer from any of my instructors (all of whom were accomplished fighters and good friends) after my discussions with Slidey, which was extremely disappointing.
As Slidey said WSK/ZSK is a fairly solid with regards to stand-up sparring. The sparring, which was a staple part of each class (which is a good sign) was quite heavy. Many lessons were learned whilst having my head smacked and my legs kicked from under me simultaneously
However, in my experience, it was by no means the best with regards to stand up. It also had no groundwork or clinch, which was an appalling oversight considering WSK advertised itself as 'a complete self defence art'. I think you can begin to understand why I stopped training in the style.
I would never bother to return to the style.
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