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  1. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 10:46am


     Style: BJJ(blue)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So I guess we can say that this might be a good example of a "sport technique" that doesn't translate too well to a "real" self defense situation? Being that many consider MMA as a the closest and safest aproach to real fighting?
  2. Necroth is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 10:59am


     Style: Vale Tudo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    X-guard for MMA would be more of a "oops, I find myself in this awful position, maybe I should do an X-guard sweep and try not to get killed here", same as half-guard. Not a place you want to be. For that matter, being on bottom isn't a place many want to be. I may use rubber guard, but I do it after I've tried all the easier, more efficient sweeps and lockflows from my usual high guard (kimura, kimura-to-sweep, armdrag, etc.). If that doesn't work, well, I see myself sitting in guard awhile, which means I should go ahead and try to RG a little. My half-guard consists of working to get back to guard, working to slip out of half guard and to my knees, or working to roll a sloppy half-guard top player, but definitely not trying to submit or go for X. I also don't use butterfly much (personal reasons, not because I don't think it works, since it does work), and I've been in revese guard exactly twice but I wouldn't exactly be training that position as it's not the best place to be thinking of staying and subbing from.

    I think DLR, XG, and all of these sportJJ positions have their place in sportJJ where you can exert all of the control from the gi grip and not worry about brutal G'N'P. Even no-gi can benefit from many of these exotic guards, but MMA remains a place where efficiency reigns supreme.
  3. datdamnmachine is offline
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    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 12:17pm

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     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should see if there is anyone out there who has had success with the half guard in MMA. I'm sure some have. As for the X-guard, I would suggest asking Marcelo Garcia after he makes his pro MMA debut and gets a few matches under his belt. The right person with the right training and experience could and would probably make it work.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 1:38pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJ Penn-
    "If you 're in the bottom half guard position and your opponent is an expert working from the top half guard position you could end up in some trouble. He has a whole bunch of strikes at his disposal, and you don't have many. For this reason, it is imperative that you quickly assess what moves are available to you and then go for them. You don't want to hang out and burn time. When I find myself in the bottom half guard position, I'll work to establish an under hook and then get up onto my side. Once achieved, I'll work to take my opponent's back or sweep him over to his back. You should feel a sense of urgency. Assess your situatio, force movement, and get out of there. Trying to stall in the bottom half guard position will most likely cause you some pain."


    From Mixed Martial Arts Book of Knowledge page 227
  5. caseyboy is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 3:09pm

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     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by datdamnmachine
    You should see if there is anyone out there who has had success with the half guard in MMA. I'm sure some have. As for the X-guard, I would suggest asking Marcelo Garcia after he makes his pro MMA debut and gets a few matches under his belt. The right person with the right training and experience could and would probably make it work.
    You beat me to it. This would satisfy my curiousity to see if it is even possible, because if Marcelo can't pull it off, no one can. However even if he can do it in a MMA match with great success, I would think he would still be the exception and not the rule.
  6. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 3:22pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyboy
    You beat me to it. This would satisfy my curiousity to see if it is even possible, because if Marcelo can't pull it off, no one can. However even if he can do it in a MMA match with great success, I would think he would still be the exception and not the rule.
    Exactly. Garcia is a world class BJJ competitor. Even if he can make x-guard work in a MMA match, does that mean the rest of us poor schlubs will be able to do the same? I think not.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  7. RobT is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 4:05pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's worth having a good knowledge of each and every position, but x and half guard are probably better being used only as transitions in MMA - don't hang around in them.
  8. datdamnmachine is offline
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    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 5:56pm

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     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I admit right now that I don't do any MMA, all I can say is that I've watched and analyzed way too much MMA. That's pretty much what I do besides train as well. The general consensus with regards to being on your back; and I'm sure everyone can pretty much agree with this, is exactly what B.J. Penn said that Omega posted, is that you need to be attacking and not just hanging out there. This is true not just to the half guard or X-guard but full guard as well.

    How many times have you seen people just hang out on their back throwing the lazy triangle or armbar up occasionally only to get ground and pounded out. Hell, Tito Ortiz made his entire career out of doing this to people with lazy overly defensive full guards. If the guy on top is too busy defending subs and sweeps then he doesn't have enough to effectively hit you on the top. The ones that stop moving usually are the ones getting hit. The ones that keep moving end up with the sweep, sub, or back on their feet.

    Another thing that has me curious as well, it may be off topic but I think it relates. With regards to a lot of moves that may seem "sport" specific; does anyone try a little lab work to try to make those moves work in MMA? By "lab work" I mean figuring out what you are good at and testing it in the gym with sparring and other drills to see if you can make it work in MMA.
  9. migo is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 6:01pm


     Style: Baboo Baby

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Half Guard is mandatory to know in MMA. If you don't have a good half guard, every guard pass will be straight to full or side mount. Half guard is not a good position for preventing people from striking you - some fighters even prefer to posture up in half guard and pound from there instead of passing to full or side mount. The main benefit of half guard is it's a better position to regain full guard from than full mount or side mount. You also have some options to climb the back, stand up or go straight for a submission.

    http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...arch&plindex=0

    The part in this video of blocking the arm so you can't be flattened is also valid for MMA in that you want to block the arm to prevent getting punched in the face. You also don't want to be flattened as being rolled up gives you some opportunity to roll with the punches.
  10. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 6:16pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is a simpler reason that bottom positions beyond guard are less effective in MMA. Standing up is a good way to change the fight and punch the bottom guy in the face some more. Not so much in Grappling only. Next time you think a grappling move from the bottom is the new MMA Super secret win win move. Tell your partner just to stand up and hit you. Then see how it works.
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