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  1. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 5:21pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    X-guard/half guard for MMA.

    For those with a little more experience than myself, do you feel that developing the above game would work well for MMA?

    We were working on it in class on Saturday and my initial impression was that it could work quite well for avoiding punches and also seemed effective in no-gi due to the grips and hooks utilised.

    It also seems effective when used in conjunction with butterfly guard as you can transition between them quite freely..

    Opinions?
  2. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 5:30pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They're two different guards.

    X-guard in MMA is an excellent way to get your face pounded in.

    Half guard is many times unavoidable in MMA but is generally considered a less than ideal position. For most it is worse than guard but better than being side mounted. Of course, as with most things, it depends on the practitioner.
    Last edited by Meager; 9/02/2007 5:32pm at .
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 5:43pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    They're two different guards.

    X-guard in MMA is an excellent way to get your face pounded in.

    Half guard is many times unavoidable in MMA but is generally considered a less than ideal position. For most it is worse than guard but better than being side mounted. Of course, as with most things, it depends on the practitioner.
    Wow, almost verbatim what I was going to say except you forgot "don't even think about it"
  4. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 5:57pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes i understand they are different but we were entering both variations from sitting butterfly.

    I'll need to play around with it next session but from what we were doing, if you don't base out on your hands you're getting swept pretty easily, hence me thinking that GnP might not be that effective for the guy on top.

    You are also tucked right underneath his body.

    Not to mention, you've got one leg underhooked with your arm and the opposite leg is stretched out with your legs. I personally found it rediculously hard to keep balance once the hooks were in, especially if they guy on bottom manages to get a hand round my ankle.

    I've seen Eddie Bravo in a similar half guard positon where he is curled up on his side and his head is tucked in to the other guys ribs. Might have been the old school sweep but it looks pretty hard to get any leverage for a decent GnP attack without losing base and getting swept.

    BTW old school has nothing to do with the sweeps we practiced, just that the tucked in positioning was similar.
    Last edited by spirez; 9/02/2007 6:03pm at .
  5. Meager is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 6:07pm


     Style: BJJ & MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Play around with it if you want but if you're going against someone with decent base you're gonna get your teeth fed to you. If you can get the sweep immediately you might be okay but the risks far outweigh the rewards.

    And I don't know about you but I have no problems punching someone directly below me. It is not a safe place by any means. If you're on the ground with a standing opponent you want your legs between you at all times.

    It is a fine position for grappling but no one plays X-guard in MMA.
    Last edited by Meager; 9/02/2007 6:12pm at .
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2007 6:27pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spirez
    Yes i understand they are different but we were entering both variations from sitting butterfly.

    I'll need to play around with it next session but from what we were doing, if you don't base out on your hands you're getting swept pretty easily, hence me thinking that GnP might not be that effective for the guy on top.

    You are also tucked right underneath his body.

    Not to mention, you've got one leg underhooked with your arm and the opposite leg is stretched out with your legs. I personally found it rediculously hard to keep balance once the hooks were in, especially if they guy on bottom manages to get a hand round my ankle.

    I've seen Eddie Bravo in a similar half guard positon where he is curled up on his side and his head is tucked in to the other guys ribs. Might have been the old school sweep but it looks pretty hard to get any leverage for a decent GnP attack without losing base and getting swept.

    BTW old school has nothing to do with the sweeps we practiced, just that the tucked in positioning was similar.
    Meager has already said it. If you tried to do an x-guard on me I'd invert your face. Remember, Eddie Bravo, while very technical and savy, has not fought mma. If you can't accept that then don't ask then don't ask the question next time.
  7. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 4:30am


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's not that i can't accept it. I'm asking for opinions by people who have tried to utilise it. I know Eddie doesn't train MMA but he does teach his game to MMA fighters.

    Have you been caught up in x-guard by a skilled guy (i'm assuming you have)? How much leverage do you think is possible when the guy on bottom is forcing you to do the splits? If you don't base out on your hands there's a good chance you're getting swept very quickly; especially against the longer limbed guys.

    From there you use your feet to push on the crook of the opponents far knee and then pop out of the back whilst still holding the knee with your arm.

    Here's a vid of Marcelo Garcia using it against Renzo Gracie. As you can see Renzo has to base to avoid getting swept straight away.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...o-gracie_sport

    Obviously this isn't a position you want to be sitting in for any amount of time but then that's not the idea of x-guard anyway is it? Seems to be all about the sweeps from what i gather.

    I'm not looking for an argument Omega, no need to get shirty.
    Last edited by spirez; 9/03/2007 4:41am at .
  8. caseyboy is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 5:19am

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     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best example of the danger of punches to the guy on bottom is the last Randy Couture/ Vitor Belfort fight. Belfort tries the x-guard on Couture, who lowers his weight and punches Belfort in the face umpteen times.

    IF you insist on using the x-guard in MMA, I would think you would have to do it very quickly and still be willing to take a few shots.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 10:08am

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spirez
    It's not that i can't accept it. I'm asking for opinions by people who have tried to utilise it. I know Eddie doesn't train MMA but he does teach his game to MMA fighters.

    Have you been caught up in x-guard by a skilled guy (i'm assuming you have)? How much leverage do you think is possible when the guy on bottom is forcing you to do the splits? If you don't base out on your hands there's a good chance you're getting swept very quickly; especially against the longer limbed guys.

    From there you use your feet to push on the crook of the opponents far knee and then pop out of the back whilst still holding the knee with your arm.

    Here's a vid of Marcelo Garcia using it against Renzo Gracie. As you can see Renzo has to base to avoid getting swept straight away.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...o-gracie_sport

    Obviously this isn't a position you want to be sitting in for any amount of time but then that's not the idea of x-guard anyway is it? Seems to be all about the sweeps from what i gather.

    I'm not looking for an argument Omega, no need to get shirty.
    I never give a 'matter of fact' answer unless I've experianced it first hand dude. Maybe you didn't know that about me. It doesn't work. A bunch of Cesar Gracie guys were playing with it too, it didn't work. Don't use it. I'm pretty sure you could ask Eddie Bravo himself and he'd tell you not to use that paticular maneuver in mma.

    *edit: For the record I use a modified x-guard almost every time I get on the mat with bigger guys.
  10. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/03/2007 10:26am

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Try this spirez, find one of the more skilled grappler/strikers at your gym, tell him he can punch you in the face at will while you play x-guard. Then get back to us.

    As a blue belt, I thought x-guard would be well suited to a jits with hits sparring session. I changed my mind after trying it out a few times.
    Shut the hell up and train.
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