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  1. Necroth is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Fairbanks AK
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    598

    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 10:31am


     Style: Vale Tudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nope, I meant what I typed...

    verbage

    /ver'b*j/ n. A deliberate misspelling and mispronunciation of verbiage that assimilates it to the word `garbage'. Compare content-free. More pejorative than `verbiage'.

    As opposed to:

    verbiage

    noun
    1. overabundance of words
    2. the manner in which something is expressed in words; "use concise military verbiage"- G.S.Patton [syn: wording]

    He definitely did NOT have an overabundance of words, nor use a technical mannerism with said words. But his words were garbage.
  2. Genghis Bob is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 10:40am


     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Nope, I meant what I typed...He definitely did NOT have an overabundance of words, nor use a technical mannerism with said words. But his words were garbage.
    D'0h! Point taken.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
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    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yay!!! Semantic Warz!!!

    *** lift legs and pops a beer open ***
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    1,932

    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 3:59pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are so many guys out there trying to get into this sport, they don't need to give people a break for the ones that might **** it up. That's all this sport needs is some guy getting brain damage for a little **** talking that goes with the game. His crime wasn't for holding the choke for too long, it was for gleefully stating that he wanted to. Rio, hell, the world is full of guys that can fight, I'm sure they can find a replacement.
  5. Vince Tortelli is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Nov 2012
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    4,016

    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 4:03pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And now, moving up in weight to 205.....CHRISSSS "THE CRIPPLER" LEEEBBBEEENNNN!
  6. Yamabushi is offline
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    Isolated and Confused

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    London, U.K.
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    197

    Posted On:
    9/05/2007 6:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    OK, anatomy experts, MD's, Judo researcher and choking aficionados--please answer a question for me:

    I'll assume the bit about plaque in the arteries contributing to a choke-induced Embolism is true. Is it possible that a) a sufficiently strong carotid choke hold that is held to unconsciousness is any worse than b) a sufficiently strong carotid choke hold that is held to only long enough to get a submission?

    *by "sufficiently strong", I mean strong enough to work. Same strength for either (a) or (b).

    There are two variables, pressure and duration. Which one (or both) is the dangerous factor?

    Therein, I suggest, lies the secret to unraveling our little tempest here. Then, if we find that (a) is actually more likely to cause death than (b), we can then move on to the discussion as to whether the relative risk imposed by (a) is sufficient to get one's knickers in a knot.

    DISCLAIMER: I am neither an anatomy expert, MD, Judo researcher nor choking aficionado. And I'm not wearing knickers.
    The closest analogy we've got from medicine is the use of carotid sinus massage (CSM). The procedure involves rubbing the carotid artery for 5 to 10 seconds in order to induce a change in heart rate or blood pressure. It can be used either to diagnose problems with carotid blood flow (sometimes repsonsible for sudden falls and fainting) or to treat some types of cardiac rhythm problems.

    CSM definitely has complications but they are rare - estimates range between 0.17% and 1.0% of those treated. Typically the type of problems CSM induces are strokes with some cardiac problems and are transient with most people making a full recovery. The mechanism for stroke is the disruption of plaque on the artery wall and for cardiac arrythmias stimulation of the vagal response. Given that the population who receive CSM are typically older (late 70's is average) and not in the best of health the risks for younger people who are in good health are probably lower (this article describes one study looking at complications).

    The interesting thing about CSM is that one should not occlude the carotid artery when carrying it out. That suggests that pressure probably plays a more important role than duration but since the technique of CSM involves rubbing the artery the shearing force may be of greater importance than compression force.

    Given that chokes are compression attacks that would suggest that they should have a lower risk than CSM. Anecdotally that seems to be the case as there appears to be nowhere near even a 0.17% incidence of stroke following choking in judo, BJJ or MMA. As an interesting aside if shearing is a factor in increased risk of complications from choking then a poorly applied choke where someone is able to move their neck while trying to resist would be more dangerous than a well applied one that is sunk in tightly. Given that all the choking fatalites that have occured have been as a result of their use by someone who was probably not terribly skilled against people who may have resisted extremely vigorously it could be argued that that is the case. On the other hand I could be talking bollocks.
    Failing to become awesome since 1976
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