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  1. Empress Akasha is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2007 8:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD, Muay Thai, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LowwerWay
    Use hooks.
    Hmmmmm. That's like the worst advice anybody could give, y'know...........
  2. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2007 9:59pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No not at all. Unless, you have no clue what you are talking about.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 3:03am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dr. Leung Ting, "Wing Tsun Keun", 1978, has mention of "dissolving and countering the oppenents grappling-hand attacks" with heun sau, pg. 129, as well as other specifics aimed at stopping being grabbed or taken down. Its not new. only the training programs Sifu Boztepe put together are.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenBeakFist
    I searched the forums and can't pin down where this whole Wing Chun "anti-grapple" meme started up. I've recently read three books about Wing Chun from different time periods ('60s, '80s, '00s) and nowhere did I find any mention of grappling, "anti-grappling", or anything much having to do with "grappling."
    WT (anti) Grappling is a training set to develop the techniques one would need to prevent a grapplers game and continue with your striking. It was created in the 1980's and implimented in the 1990's, since the Gracie Family wrote a letter to us saying they planned to storm all our gyms and beat up all the instructors infront of the students.

    The entire concept of _ing _un can be boiled down to preventing grabs so you can keep striking, so only the term is new. The training sets are to actually do "chi Sau" in grappling positions, because before it was just assumed if you followed the principles it would work. The training just puts the principles into senerios to face a new threat.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenBeakFist
    From the EBMAS Website (http://www.ebmas.net/europa/home.php)


    Since it appears that the majority of this site is dedicated to Sifu Emin masturbatory aides and includes about a half-dozen other Bullshido red flags I will thank you kindly for bringing it to my attention, take the information contained under advisement, and walk away with a better understanding of why people mock Wing Chun. I, however remain undaunted in my quest...
    I do not do EBMAS so I can enjoy the website.

    Grappling was generally termed wrestling before UFC populerized the "grapple" concept.

    As far as I know WT coined the term anti-grapple. It stems from the concept of "never box a boxer and never wrestle a wrestler." You can not beat people at their own game, they have better skills there. You must prevent it and maximize the parts of your own game they do not practice. This is why BJJ dominated untill the secret was out.

    Anti-Grappling is meant to keep the WT from thinking he is gonna ever match a grappler at his game, but instead to practice preventing it and to contunue striking or stand back up.

    example: we practice armbar escape more then arm bar itself. We wont do armbar, that postion is for head kicking or knee dropps.

    we do side mount with a double knee drop/ kick to head but do keep our feet on the floor so we can stand up quickly or head stomp. We don't do full mount on purpose because it prevents mobility(sole of foot leaves floor) and is the grapplers bread and butter. Why go into his game and get bumbed into rear naked choke or triangle?

    it may be crappling by a grapplers standards. I am just explaining the concept.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 5:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu

    example: we practice armbar escape more then arm bar itself. We wont do armbar, that postion is for head kicking or knee dropps.

    we do side mount with a double knee drop/ kick to head but do keep our feet on the floor so we can stand up quickly or head stomp. We don't do full mount on purpose because it prevents mobility(sole of foot leaves floor) and is the grapplers bread and butter. Why go into his game and get bumbed into rear naked choke or triangle?

    it may be crappling by a grapplers standards. I am just explaining the concept.
    That's the thing though, no good armbar = no good armbar escape. It's crappling by anyone's standard.

    Edit: Will do almost anything for video footage of that.
  5. Empress Akasha is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 6:05am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD, Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    No not at all. Unless, you have no clue what you are talking about.
    I do have a clue what I'm talking about, but you're advocating something really stupid. Wing Chun attacks in a straight line. Anything traveling in a straight line will reach the target before something travelling in a circular motion, as it has to travel a shorter distance. If you always throw hooks at a wing chun guy, he's just going to destroy you down your centerline, if he's any good.

    Em
  6. Tonuzaba is offline
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    C.E. B.S.net Ambassador

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 6:30am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Empress Akasha
    I do have a clue what I'm talking about, but you're advocating something really stupid. Wing Chun attacks in a straight line. Anything traveling in a straight line will reach the target before something travelling in a circular motion, as it has to travel a shorter distance. If you always throw hooks at a wing chun guy, he's just going to destroy you down your centerline, if he's any good.

    Em
    Excuse me, but what planet do the Akashians come from?

    First of all I really hope your words about wing chun and the hooks are an attempt to troll.

    Second, read more carefully - It is Fake did not advocate anything, he responded to lowwerway, with irony.

    Third, where is your home planet again?

    CLICK & WATCH
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    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  7. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 8:00am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Empress Akasha
    I do have a clue what I'm talking about, but you're advocating something really stupid. Wing Chun attacks in a straight line. Anything traveling in a straight line will reach the target before something travelling in a circular motion, as it has to travel a shorter distance. If you always throw hooks at a wing chun guy, he's just going to destroy you down your centerline, if he's any good.

    Em
    If you are talking about a wild circular punch you are right, however a good tight hook is a very fast punch with a lot of power. A chunner throwing a traditional straight punch may land first but he is going to eat that hook as it comes over his punching hand or crashing into his ribs, kidney or liver (ouch!). Especially when in a correct wing chun stance is square to the opponent, the chin is up and the shoulder and elbow are down with the elbow extended in front of the body. The style of chun I learned actually incorporated the hook into its punching arsenal, they called it a buffalo horn. Another thing to consider is that many styles of wing chun advocate winning by throwing a large number of punches but not over-committing on any single punch, mitigating the damage of a single punch. A hook is thrown with bad intentions and has the weight of the whole body behind it, and boxers tend to throw combinations also. Even as a crappy boxer I have dropped people with a single left hook to the body.
  8. Fa Jing is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 9:41am


     Style: Brazilian JiuJitsu, Wing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok as far as "anti" grapple goes man its all in the forms, do the freaking forms, look & pay attention to them. EMBAS "invented" the anti-grapple, dont think so. Eye gouges, throat strikes ect.. that's bui gee just laying on your back. Regardless of how much wing chun you know or how many years you've studied there is no substitute for a good sprawl, Chuck Liddel is a good example of that. Wing chun is complete just alot of chunners dont even see the applications. I see it in students way more advanced than me all the time, they take their ideas and run with them regardless of how effective they are. "detachment of ego first or learning cannot occur"-Wing Chun Compendium

    IMO
  9. john joe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 9:49am


     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Empress Akasha
    I do have a clue what I'm talking about, but you're advocating something really stupid. Wing Chun attacks in a straight line. Anything traveling in a straight line will reach the target before something travelling in a circular motion, as it has to travel a shorter distance. If you always throw hooks at a wing chun guy, he's just going to destroy you down your centerline, if he's any good.

    Em

    yes, you're right there... unless the boxer did something completely revolutionary like setting his hooks up with straight shots. Who the **** leads with hooks??

    and you're telling people they are advocating something really stupid? go learn how do boxing
  10. john joe is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 9:52am


     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    We wont do armbar, that postion is for head kicking or knee dropps.
    becuase that makes much more sense than breaking the guy's arm...oh no wait, no it does not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    we do side mount with a double knee drop/ kick to head but do keep our feet on the floor so we can stand up quickly or head stomp.
    this sounds like WWF Chun! what the ****?... i too would love to see a vid of this.

    What is that about keeping feet on the floor, what do grapplers do, wave them in the air while balancing precariously on their knees?
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