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  1. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:23am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Study is not what makes an Art an Art. The notion of intellectual endeavors associated with the arts is a more modern addition which makes the use of the word tenuous at best.

    Regardless of any of that, it is not that people 'judge karate from an MMA perspective', people look at how most (and I do mean most) karate is practiced in the states and europe and judge it according to its ineffectiveness both in terms of technique, time and conditioning. You just joined this site, read a thread or two and started posting.

    A short list of what offends people about karate:
    1- Grandmasters
    2-Grandmasters who pretend to be the deadly but show no sign of skill and refuse pressure tested training
    3- Fat grandmasters
    4- Ridiculous histories filled with fantastic old invincible grandmasters defeating young well traing conditioned fighters

    If people do karate becase they want to have fun or for whatever reason, as long as they are honest (the buyer and the seller) most people do not have a problem with that. What becomes an issues is ridiculous claims, false hopes and blatant lies.

    That being said, doing something is almost always better than doing nothing. People like myself just get sick of seeing new people come on here without reading, making assumptions about everyone and everything on this thread and drudging up old myths and legends.

    Alot othe people with higher post counts don't post their experience anymore because everyone knows who they are, how long they've trained and what they believe in. You'll notice that those posters with low counts and not info usually either don't last long or are not taken that seriously.

    And please don't even get started about MMA rules, there are so many threads started on that topic we could fertilize all of ethiopia with the contents.
  2. Tsuba5 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:47am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I understand your position. But you sort of glossed over my comments about Tai Chi. From your enlightened perspective - is it an art?

    And if it is - would you consider it a martial art even if it is not combative?
    If it is not and you consider it just an exercise - is studying it worthless?

    Just curious to see where your head is.
  3. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Some people do Tai chi for exercise some actually do it as a combat art.

    No one has a problem with the people who do it as exercise.

    We have a problem with people who do it as exercise and claim they are developing real fighting skills

    There has been plenty proof of Tai Chi as an effective combat sport.

    It looks a lot like Greco wrestling.


    That doesn't mean that every tai chi practitioner can do it. Only the ones who actually train for it as combat sport.
  4. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most Tai chi is martial excercise rather than martial art.

    Like Tae Bo or areobic kick boxing.
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 11:00am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And if it is - would you consider it a martial art even if it is not combative?
    If it is not and you consider it just an exercise - is studying it worthless?
    There are people who study tai chi for fighting. If it is not combative I wouldn't consider it a "Martial Art". I might consider it a martial art. Kind of like the dummer guy who used to drum in front of the troops back inthe revolutionary days (military history is not my forte).

    Is studying tai chi worthless if it is for exercise? If it does in fact help the body then no, it is not worthless. Is stereotypical old lady in the park tai chi a martial art? No, it is not. Inherent in everything is both an essence and an interpretation. The intent latent in the interpretation counts for alot but it cannot be separated from the essence of the thing. (Goddamn philo degree.)

    Yoga can also help the body, but I do not consider it a Martial Art.

    I think running around in medeval cloths and fake weapons is not a Martial Art, but if people enjoy it and don't mislead themselves into thinking they ARE medeval swordsman then it is not worthless. Once you cross that threshold of delusion, then the act is worthless in regards to that attribute (i.e. combat effectiveness).

    At the end of the day, if you want to learn how to fight, you do that by fighting. If you want to have fun, show off flashy moves, then do strip mall karate or TKD. (I have never impressed anyone by doing a jab to a heavy bag.)
    Last edited by cyrijl; 8/31/2007 11:04am at .
  6. Scott Larson is offline
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    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 12:51pm


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    (I have never impressed anyone by doing a jab to a heavy bag.)

    I'm sorry, could you clarify, I don't understand.
    ________________________________________

    Authentic Kung Fu in Buffalo, NY

    http://www.buffalokungfu.com


    http://www.laoshierinmarkle.com
  7. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 2:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alot of the strip mall karate and kung fu teaches flashy moves. If all you want to do is flashy moves then that is fine.

    However ,if your goal is to become a fighter, then you need to train somewhere where you actually fight. These places tend not to teach flashy moves.
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 2:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuba5
    I notice that most of the people who make comments on this forum generally hide in anominity - they don't indicate their rank (although that doesn't mean much in certain styles - but still accounts for something), they don't indicate their age (which would at least tend to lend creedence to some of their comments - life experience does count), and they just generally hide which is common on the internet. Maybe the people here are ashamed of their background - I don't know. Just something I've noticed.

    *****

    So - why does everyone here hide their training background?
    Man, you just joined, and have, to this point, 16 posts in total. And in that short amount of time you have noticed a pattern of behavior on not one or few, but MOST posters here.

    One or few, maybe. Most? I don't think so, not unless you have observed something I have not.

    So with that in mind, I'm forced to ask you to please point to some concrete examples of such behavior which in your own words characterize the majority of the posters in this forum.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 2:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Careful, he does the r34l krotty
  10. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 2:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In response to the original videos, it impressed me for what it was -- good, hard pointfighting.

    Nothing wrong with that. I was particularly happy to see as much sweeping, trapping and locking as I did, but that's just me. Maybe they should be wearing some gear if they are going to go that hard, but those videos are 21 years old.

    As for Tsuba5, the point of judging Karate from an MMA perspective is simply effectiveness. With the length of time you have in your art, surely you have seen clubs/organizations that have mass marketed their art, and in doing so, have 'watered down' the art to make it more palatable to the general public. I have nowhere near as much time into my chosen art (Wado Kai - going on 7 years) as you do, and I've already seen enough to make me gag.

    If you are here long enough, you will find that there is respect for some forms of Karate (Kyokushin for the most part), because they train hard, and alive. The amount of tradition for the sake of tradition is generally kept to a minimum. There isn't a fat, out of shape Sensei at the front trying to teach an esoteric, unrealistic set of drills to an ignorant set of students who don't know enough to see that he's full of crap, and couldn't do it himself to save his life.

    It's the methodology that people don't respect, and the closed 'NEVER QUESTION YOUR SENSEI' mindset that is all too common in our art that is challenged here. Mixed in with some out and out ignorant buffoonery.

    As for the 'What is a MA?' question, I think you already have the answer to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
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