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  1. longcut is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 1:49am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    This doesnt look to bad, does it ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5faGD5b6Zw




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292RJ...related&search=


    Not really sure if this is the normal standard of sparring and competition for karate , was really just curious, this is the most alive i personally have ever seen it, but that isnt saying much.
  2. sheol1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 2:33am


     Style: Fencing, Sword play, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is typical shotokan.
  3. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 7:53am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by longcut
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5faGD5b6Zw




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=292RJ...related&search=


    Not really sure if this is the normal standard of sparring and competition for karate , was really just curious, this is the most alive i personally have ever seen it, but that isnt saying much.
    Old school Dan-level shotokan competition tends to relax restrictions on contact. It's still point fighting, but you can beat the hell out of the other guy to get the point. This isn't true in every tournament, though.
  4. Scott Larson is offline
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    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 9:00am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've never seen this. Looks interesting.

    What are the exact rules?
    ________________________________________

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  5. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 9:09am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It looks good.

    We tend to judge all MA here by MMA, which isn't bad in itself.

    But I think MA should be judged by having a level of functional training and sparring.

    That means it doesn't have to be MMA full contact but some reasonable and realistic level of contact.

    My point being that while this may be hard contact point Karate,

    It still is a functional Karate that would develop real life skills.

    Maybe not MMA level but still functional level of MA
  6. Tsuba5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 9:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Soju - Joe
    It looks good.

    We tend to judge all MA here by MMA, which isn't bad in itself.

    But I think MA should be judged by having a level of functional training and sparring.

    I notice that most of the people who make comments on this forum generally hide in anominity - they don't indicate their rank (although that doesn't mean much in certain styles - but still accounts for something), they don't indicate their age (which would at least tend to lend creedence to some of their comments - life experience does count), and they just generally hide which is common on the internet. Maybe the people here are ashamed of their background - I don't know. Just something I've noticed.

    Just curious - as to why Martial Arts should be judged by these standards? It is an Art - which doesn't necessarily mean it has to be functional. Take Tai Chi for example - it is based on fighting arts, but is now a form exercise - but it is still an art and takes years to master the movements. (Just an example). Boxing is an art - but has some really bad flaws (no use of the feet - or grappling).

    I see lots of comments on here and you guys really like to trash everyone - from the MMA perspective - maybe you have a point. But then again - MMA isn't combat. There are still rules in MMA - no biting, no eye gouging, no breaking bones, etc. Doesn't this put MMA in with the rest of karate - a just another sport? Effective perhaps, but the question is valid.

    So - why does everyone here hide their training background?
    Last edited by Tsuba5; 8/31/2007 9:39am at .
  7. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 9:42am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Geez. Are you serious? Do you know what art means in the term "Martial Art". It does not refer to Cezanne. It refers to technique. (yeah yeah techne literally means technique, but I don't want to have this whole greek discussion).

    Art is a craft, something you practice. It is by definition functional.

    There are still rules in MMA - no biting, no eye gouging, no breaking bones, etc.
    By typing this you show how ignorant you are. There is a difference between an MMA event, which is a sporting event with a ruleset. And training in an alive manner in effective fighting techniques which span several fighting ranges. 'MMA' training is defined thusly because of its inclusion of practical techniques in each of the fighting ranges (if possible should include firearms, many already include stick fighting).

    BJJ does in fact include many bone breaking, joint separating techniques. And if I can hold you down effectively, I can bite and eye gouge you until the cows come home.

    if I can tie you up in the clinch I can rip your balls off, crush your windpipe.

    If I have effective Muay Thai/Kickboxing I can maintain a safe distance throuh teeping or conversely punch you in the face.

    It is no more complicated than that.

    As far as the vids, I have respect for just about anyone who competes. Although I think there did seem to be alot of patty cake hand slapping (in the first vid). What I think is funny are the people who comment "But but but, did you see that guy broke his nose in the competition?" I mean, people break stuff during normal sparring sessions. Getting something broken doesn't be necessity make you tough. If it did i'd be one of the biggest badasses at my gym. What it means in reality is that I am just very unlucky.
    Last edited by cyrijl; 8/31/2007 9:51am at .
  8. Tsuba5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:02am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    By typing this you show how ignorant you are.
    Wow - and here I though that Art was a skill acquired by experience, study and observation.

    I guess my 33 years of study of Okinawan Martial Arts are just a waste of time - Amazing to have someone jump in like that and make an assumption. This is where information exchange breaks down and leads to name calling. I asked a valid question about the judgement of karate from a MMA perspective - versus actual combat and look what happens - name calling. The last vestage of the incompetent.

    I will give you credit though - at least you put your experience level on your Name.

    Now that that's out of the way - let's return to the question. Why do most of the people here judge karate from a MMA perspective?
  9. kwoww is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:05am


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuba5
    I notice that most of the people who make comments on this forum generally hide in anominity - they don't indicate their rank (although that doesn't mean much in certain styles - but still accounts for something), they don't indicate their age (which would at least tend to lend creedence to some of their comments - life experience does count), and they just generally hide which is common on the internet. Maybe the people here are ashamed of their background - I don't know. Just something I've noticed.
    Few people do. That's why we have things like a style field, and in the forum profile there's a whole "MA experience" section. Lying in those sections is another story entirely, but most people are probably honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuba5
    Just curious - as to why Martial Arts should be judged by these standards? It is an Art - which doesn't necessarily mean it has to be functional. Take Tai Chi for example - it is based on fighting arts, but is now a form exercise - but it is still an art and takes years to master the movements. (Just an example). Boxing is an art - but has some really bad flaws (no use of the feet - or grappling).
    This is an old debate. Martial arts are generally judged against the MMA standard because MMA is a wide-open ruleset, and as such it's an excellent proving ground for styles that claim to impart some fighting ability. Tai Chi is a bizarre example, because even though it's just a form exercise, people on occasion claim to be able to apply Tai Chi to a combat setting, often with disastrous or humorous results. Shotokan schools generally claim to impart fighting ability. Therefore they are judged against the MMA standard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuba5
    I see lots of comments on here and you guys really like to trash everyone - from the MMA perspective - maybe you have a point. But then again - MMA isn't combat. There are still rules in MMA - no biting, no eye gouging, no breaking bones, etc. Doesn't this put MMA in with the rest of karate - a just another sport? Effective perhaps, but the question is valid.
    Exactly. MMA is "just another sport," but it also happens to be the closest thing to a streetfight. The gloves are thin, the rulesets are far less restrictive than other sport rules. MMA training methods take this into account. If you can take a punch in 4 oz. gloves, you have a better shot at taking one in t3h str33t than if you, say, did nothing but train in one-step no-contact drills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuba5
    So - why does everyone here hide their training background?
    They don't: See above.

    If you think everyone hides his/her training background, why don't you rise above that. How long have you been training, and where? In which styles?

    I did Kung Fu between the ages of five and six, and then took up Taekwondo, which I still practice. I am currently a 2nd dan training instructor under Master Chris Berlow of United Martial Arts Centers at Briarcliff, where some defensive Hapkido techniques are used to supplement the curriculum. I also recently began taking kickboxing classes with an instructor at UMAC named Walter Kiss. I am sixteen years old, male, approximately 130 pounds, and have a moderate level of physical fitness for my age. I have looked into and read much about other styles, and plan on starting crosstraining in an entirely new style when I graduate high school.
  10. Tsuba5 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 10:11am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Okinawan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwoww
    If you think everyone hides his/her training background, why don't you rise above that. How long have you been training, and where? In which styles?
    Thanks for asking. I've been training since I was 18 (1972) - I've trained mainly in Okinawan karate = Isshin-ryu, Shorin-Ryu, and (now what most people here percieve as a cult - Shuri-Ryu - previously Shorei-Ryu). I hold a 3rd Dan in Karate, a Shodan in Weapons and am currently scheduled to test for my Shodan in JiuJitsu in October. I like to mix these things up when sparring - but due to my age, my knees aren't as cooperative as they used to be.
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