8/23/2007 5:25am, #11Originally Posted by spooky
Kobayashi? Never heard of him. She probably learned iai from Ken Penland (who was a bullshit kenjutsu teacher too).
8/23/2007 1:04pm, #12
she is a full on girl now. even went as far as shaving off the adams apple. i have confrmed that the toshindo ranks are legit and the 3rd dan in kenpo is under steve crawfords combat kenpo (funny because as stated before i gave her a first black then we had our falling out).
8/23/2007 1:16pm, #13
found the first bullshido - on her bio and facts page located at www.budoryuninjitsu.com it says this :
1996 Green Belt Crawford’s Combat Kenpo Systems
1997 Brown Belt Crawford’s Combat Kenpo Systems
1998 Shodan 1st Degree Black Belt Crawford’s Combat Kenpo System
THIS IS UTTER BULLSHIDO -SHE DIDNT MEET STEVE CRAWFORD UNTIL AFETR 2001 (I AM ONE OF CRAWFORDS INSTRUCTORS AND I DIDNT EVEN MEET HIM UNTIL 1997)
NOW I'M REALLY GONNA RESEARCH HER **** NOW
8/24/2007 9:26am, #14
Originally Posted by suddenimpact
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Bel Air, Maryland
Also that link doesn't work for me.....
8/24/2007 4:22pm, #15
So, for us non-sword swingers, this is the art s/he's claiming to have a godan in?
Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu
Systems: iaijutsu (odachi); also training in iai-derived paired exercises ("kenjutsu")
Date founded: late Muromachi period (ca. 1590)
Founded by: Hayashizaki Jinsuke Shigenobu, ca. 1542-1621
Present representative/headmaster: There are several lines of transmission, the senior representatives of which claim to be the headmaster or the most senior authority. It is difficult, if not impossible to determine which of these are valid claims.
Primarily located in: throughout Japan, with many dojo located in the Kansai area
Also, from my very very limited knowledge, would s/he not need to current head guy's permission to teach the koryu?
Any way of checking that?
8/24/2007 4:35pm, #16Originally Posted by spooky
# 2 on the list of bullshit alerts"To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
8/26/2007 3:33pm, #17
Here is a transcript from some emails sent to a fellow bullshido member that i recieved today. Any thoughts
Well I am back. Just to recap everything we talked about:
Member: Your teacher originally studied ninjutsu, was it in Japan and is it listed as koryu?
HHmm,,..I have many teachers, my teacher of Tomo Ryu Shinobi-jutsu (I think that this is the teacher that you are talking about) originally did not study ninjutsu, the information on my teachers is on my instructors page,..here is that link.
Kobayashi Sensei started out training in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu, then he started training in the ninja arts. Yes, Kobayashi Sensei did train in Japan under Hayashi Nakashima, you might find more information to this on this page
Member: You also asked if it is listed as a "Koryu",..
no ninja art is listed as a koryu at all. To be a Koyu there has to be a proof of so many years and generations tomake it a koryu. Not even Masaaki Hatsumi of the Bujinkan 34th Grandmaster of the Togakure Ryu is listed as a Soke in the Koyu, there are VERY few Koryu arts, the only art that I teach that is a koryu is Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu.
Here is a link to the Koryu, that way you can see what the Koryu arts are, I am not for sure if this will help you or not, but this is the listing of Koryu arts taught.
Member: Also, what styles influenced the Tomo Ryu Ninjutsu, Iga or Koga?
Well,..this is going to be a long part of the email, here is the link to the history of the Tomo Ryu, this is on my website too,
Tomo Ryu is from the Shiga prefecture of Japan, it started in the 1300's. agaon look at the link, maybe that will clear up some of the questions that you are having with the art.
By the way "IGA" and "KOGA" are not styles, they are places on a map, these are areas listed before the prefectual system was established. There were over 70 families of ninja operating out of the remote areas of koga and iga, if you were ninja, you would ahve came from one or the other,..I teach 2 ninja traditions.
Togakure Ryu of Iga
Tomo Ryu of Koga
Member: Yet it states on your website: The most popular ninja ryu from this region of Japan are:It is my understanding that ‘RYU’ means school. Forgive my confusion.
You have listed the most well known arts from the koga region, here is another link on my List that states all of the ryuha from Japan.
You might want to look at the link on my iste that says "History of the Shinobi". There you will find a lot of quality information about ninjutsu in general, if you look at the other pages it is more on the topics of the arts that I teach, sohere is a link tha tmight help you more with "general" history of the ninja.
Member: So then to sum it up then, Tomo Ryu is a sub system taught with-in the Yagyu Shingan Ryu Heihojutsu?
NO,..not at all, the Yagyu Shingan Ryu was another art that Nakashima Sensei had trained in and taught openly.
In Japan the soul is bushido,.. the way of the samuria, it is the more popular ways of training, I can get more into the history of Japan and why all of the "DO" arts were made/developed (karatedo,..Iaido,..Kendo,..Judo,..Aikido,..Ect,ec t,..) but this will take a long time.
But the Ninja arts were not looked as as a "gentleman" way of training, plus alot of the methds of ninjutsu just is so dated that hand to hand combat is more of the practice today, not so much stealth, poisens and weaponry, and the weapons that we do use today is different than those of then, so the arts changed as history did, but ninjutsu did not, since it did not have too, ninjutsu just stopped. politically in Japan in the late 16th century the need for the ninja was really died out, and the other arts continued as ways of training. ("DO",.the way)
Master Nakashima had a group of loyal students in the martial arts that he taught openly. The art was the Yagyu Shingan Ryu Heihojutsu and was a master in Jujutsu, Bojutsu and Naginatajutsu.
YES, he taught the arts of the Yagyu Shingan Ryu ALso,...just like Kobayahsi Sensei also taught the arts of Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu,....
Master Nakashima did not feel that the Tomo Ryu Shinobi-no-jutsu methods of ninja combat should be taught openly. He felt that the Tomo Ryu methods had to be passed on, but remain a secret and hidden in martial training. Master Nakashima had one successor from him in the Tomo Ryu methods, and that was his son Kasuma Nakashima.
Yes this is true too,,..this is not because it was so "secret" that he did not want too,.. in the japanese culture, to teach those methods it is not looked at as a GOOD thing, here in Amaerica we look at it as exciting or "cool" to train in those ways,... but in Japan,it was just not the way fo the new world, so he taught his son all of the poisens and those types of arts/techniques and the samurai arts he taught more open.
For the majority of training the samurai and the ninja trained in very similar methods of jujutsu and kenjutsu arts, it was the same time in history, so when you see people saying that the ninja trained in "dim mak" and special death touches "kung fu" and maybe "chinese fist fighting" well,...and all of that, it just simply is not true, no ninja was going to row boat over to china to learn some dim make death touch and then row boat over so that they can dodge a razor sharp katana, and hope to hit a "special" spot on the human body,..it is people that write this on their sites that is KILLING the reputation of real ninjutsu schools. So in turn some people really feel that all ninjutsu schools are lije that, adn it is not true, some of us really teach authentic ninjutsu.
Think of the average person in the military as the Samruai (samurai means one who serves) and then the special forces as the ninja, they are both trained in alot of the same tactics, one is just more in special areas,..another reason why the ninja trainedso much with fire, fire back then would take out a whole village, where today you are going to be lucky if you can get to a whole house without someone calling the fire dept.
So this is why alot fo the modern ninjutsu school sfocus ion TAIJUTSU or body fighting arts, training in hand to hand combat, we do too,..but we also look at tradtional ninjutsu to preserve this art, and the culture of what was once a major force in warfar in Japan.
Kind of like some people really keep the Native American Arts and traditions alive,..if the Native American won those wars I am sure the history books would read another way.
Member: do you know if your densho has been officially looked at by any accredited scholars? If not, then they should be so as to clear up any misconceptions about Ninjutsu being viewed as koryu.
No the Densho has not been looked at at all,..they were written by Kobayashi Sensei himself, he warded them to me when he gave me my rank. But again, I do not think that any ninjutsu is going to be considered 'koryu",.I mean it has to be so old for that recognition, and to be honest,..no one, and I mean no one family was ever going to keep any documents around saying that they were spies or anything like that,.it would have resulted in death,..this is why the ninja arts are passed down by kuden. EVEN the bujinkan ninja arts are not concidered koryu, Hatsumi Sensei himself did not have the documentation to show the togakure ryu that far back. Toda (takamatsu's teacher) is as far back as they ahve real proof of,..this is like yoru teachers teacher kind of comparison,..
Member: So I see you hold a Yondan with-in the Bujinkan, are you a member of the Bujinkan dojo then?
Yes I am a member of the Bujinkan Dojo.
Member: Also, what rank is it you hold in MJER? I am under the impression one has to be at a certain level in order to have the authority to teach the art to others?
I am not affiliated at all with this organization and never have been, I teach the art of Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu, that is all,... this organization is not on my site at all, and I have never claimed to be part of this organization. My teacher Kobayahis Sensei taught it to me and he gave the ok to teach it, I have never been a part of the MJER organization. I do use their lineage because this is the "leneage" of soke in the tradtion that I teach, I am going to give honor to the ones that run the art, but as far as being a part of the organization, I never have, never will, and I have never said that I was.
again,..on my website, on the eishin ryu history page, THE HISTORY OF EISHIN RYU IAIJUTSU, I did use their history discription and lineage chart to show honor to the man that heads the art, that is all but his is to show respect the one tha heads the art, this organization is not listed under my affilaites and organization page, and soke komei is not one of my teachers listed on my teachers page.
Well I am back. I am still a bit unclear about things, so let me make sure I understand it all correctly.
So far everything that you have emailed me can be answered on the website if you read the information you can find the answers on the website. I know that it is a lot easier for someone to send an email to ask specific questions, please read the website and search for your answers there, I will try again to help you with the questions that you might have in this area.
I just know that I am answering all of these questions for you, and you have no ambition to train/study/learn from this school at all, and I have all of these emails to respond today with students of mine all over the world. My organization has over 200 schools world wide that trains with me, so I get a lot of emails. So please read the website and see if you can find the information that you are looking for there, so far almost everything that you have asked could have been answered if you just read the site. If it is not on the site, I will try my best to answere all possible questions that you have.
It might be easier if you just call the school. 913-449-5367, this way I can answer all of your questions on call. Again read the text below for your answers to yoru questions.
You teach a Ninjutsu style that came from the Koga region, but is not koga ninjutsu as per se,
If you train in the ninja arts, you either train in Iga Ninjutsu or Koga Ninjutsu. Here at the Budo Ryu Ninjutsu Dojo I teach 7 Martial arts. 2 of the 7 arts are strictly ninjutsu arts these arts art:
Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu - this is an art from Iga, so this would be considered a Iga Ninjutsu Art.
Tomo Ryu Ninjutsu - This is an art from Koga, so this would be considered a Koga Ninjutsu Art.
What I was talking about in earlier emails was that I do not teach “KOGA RYU”. If you study a older Japanese Martial art you will study a RYU, this is the name of the village or family that it came from, so yes I teach Koga arts, I do not teach “KOGA RYU” this is a family from the Koga region of Japan too, I teach Tomo Ryu, this is a different a different family from the Koga area,…so yes I teach the Koga arts, no I do not teach Koga Ryu, I teach Tomo Ryu ,….do you understand?
I will explain more here, I will use the bujinkan as an example, Hatsumi Sensei teach Togakure Ryu, this is considered a Iga art, but this is not Iga Ryu,..that is a different art from the Iga Prefecture of Japan. So the Togakure Ryu is Iga Ninjutsu, but it is not Iga Ryu. Those are two totally different arts. But they are both from the Iga prefecture.
and due to the nature of the art it can’t be verified as koryu because keeping documents (densho?) like that would have been a death sentence?
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT! I NEVER SAID THAT! No ninja art is considered a koryu art from Japan, because no one, not even Hatsumi has scrolls that are as dated as far back as the history that we know it is. This means that if the lineage says that they started in the 1100’s but the scrolls were written in the 1800’s,..JUST LIKE THE TOGAKURE RYU, than this is not considered a Koryu. So many of these arts where passed down through kuden in the warrior classes of Japan, so there was not a lot of written documentation at all, no one wanted to have proof laying around that they were a spy, so through oral transmission the arts still exsist today.
If you are using the term KORYU as just simply meaning “OLD JAPANESE ART” than yes, the Tomo Ryu and the Togakure Ryu are Koryu, if you are meaning what the koryu organization says is koryu, neither of the arts are koryu, the scrolls that we have do not date back to as far as what we know the lineage to be. THERE ARE VERY VERY FEW KORYU ARTS IN JAPAN. MOST OF HTEM ARE CONSIDERED GENDAI BUJUTSU; this is what the bujinkan is known as, not koryu.
Your teacher in the shinobi arts, Mr Keating, learned Tomo ryu from his teacher, H. Nakashima, who learned it from K. Nakashima, etc. Basically keeping it in the family until it was taught to Mr Keating who taught it to you, right?
YES, Master Kobayashi is my Shinobi Teacher, he trained under Hayashi Nakashima, I have had the privilege of training under Nakashima 3 times before his died. YES, my teach Master Micheal Keatting Ichiro Kobayashi is my teacher of the Shinobi arts.
HIS BIO AND INFORAMTION IS LISTED ON MY WEBSITE
Mr. Keating wrote the scrolls that he gave to you himself?
Yes, when I passed a certain level in the training, I was awarded a Menkyo, stating my level within the art, as well as a copy of the scroll of information that matches the information up to that point. So in the Tomo Ryu there are 5 scrolls. I have all 5 scrolls passed to me from Master Kobayashi.
Menkyo Shoden – 1 scroll
Menkyo Chuden – 1 Scroll
Menkyo Okuden – 1 Scroll
Menkyo Kaiden – 2 Scrolls
THIS INFORMATION IS LISTED ON THE SITE.
Was this from memory and oral transmission, as it was taught to him?
YES, his scrolls and Menkyo Licenses was passed to him from Nakashima Sensei.
THIS INFORMATION IS LISTED ON THE SITE.
Member:You are a member of the Bujinkan dojo, do you have an official representative within that organization?
Yes, I am a member of the Bujinkan, I hold a 4th Dan in Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu.
Member:A shidoshi(?) that you train under?
I trained under MANY Shidoshi all over in the Bujinkan, the first 2 Dan ranks that I achieved was ranked through the To Shin Do Dojo headed by Stephen K. Hayes. After my Jujutsu teacher stopped teaching To Shin Do at his school, I was introduced to the Columbus Ninjutsu Club and then picked up my training from there, this is where I was awarded my 3rd and 4th Dan ranks.
My Current Contact Shidoshi is Henry Infante of Miami Bujinkan.
Member: Have you trained in Japan with Hatsumi?
No, I have not trained with Hatsumi, and I do not have the ambishin to do so. There are enough very talented Shidoshi of the Togakure Ryu right here, I will be going to Japan this summer to teach a camp and visit the Nakashima family, but I am not going to train with Hatsumi.
Member:You teach Eishin Ryu, not MJER, you have no affiliation with that group and Mr Keating taught you that art, but you have no formal rank in it?
YES I DO HAVE FORMAL RANK! I have a Master Level License and a Teaching License from Master Kobayashi. I am not part of the MJER, never have, and again I am not going to be, I run my own organization. So I do not have a “rank” issued from the MJER school/organization. My rank comes from Master Kobayashi
8/27/2007 2:05am, #18
from whom did these mails come?
8/27/2007 2:12am, #19
Something about this person has irritated the **** out of me for a LONG long time. I now feel that t3h m455iv3 p0rk1n6 is inevitable and sleep a little better at night.
For someone so well versed in Japanese her English spelling is deeply fucked.
8/27/2007 7:00am, #20
Just as a point of clarification.
Historically any (legitimate) art studied by the bushi classes BEFORE 1886 is designated as koryu. Any system studied by ANYONE after 1886 is designated gendai.
The abolition of the bushi class structure occured in 1886 with the Meiji Restoration. During this event, the wearing of swords became illegal, indeed you were not permitted to study with weapons OUTSIDE which is why (in part) many sword arts today have seated waza with long swords - something you just wouldn't normally see."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".