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  1. #41
    Judah Maccabee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    So it's primarily the social milieu of the arts that inclines the participants towards aggressive behaviour?
    That seems to be their primary conclusion. Students may have a predisposition to initially choosing a particular school or sport, but continued training in it has an "enhancement effect."


    That would be consistent with previous correlations between time of training/belt rank and scores on personality measures in this area. However, previous studies weren't as well-designed as this, particularly in regards to longitudinal vs. cross-sectional design. However, despite this limitation, there's an preponderance of evidence that suggests that the longer one trains in a "modern" setting with an emphasis on sparring and competition and a de-emphasis on ethical/philosophical learning, the more antisocial one becomes.


    That's the evidence as it presently stands in the social science literature. However, I believe that it's wholly possible to have prosocial benefit from modern training. But that's an entirely different thread on how I think this would be possible.

  2. #42

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    I agree that training has caused me to be more "centered". I was very shy before starting and now I feel more confident talking to people in various scenarios in life.

    As for other vices, I'd hoped that the MAs would have helped me quit partying, but it has only found me more people to party with.

  3. #43
    Scott Larson's Avatar
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    These vices are created, or made worse when MA's are practiced only for fighting. To improve virtue, MA's need to be practiced for this reason as well.

    I thank DAYoung for starting this thread, as this is a huge issue here at BS. If you only want to be a good fighter, just train to fight. If you want to lose your vices, then you must train appropriately.

  4. #44
    Frank White's Avatar
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    I've seen people who couldnt fight before taking martial arts become pompous, and I've seen people who fought before taking martial arts become humble.

    My wife notices a positive change in attitude after I work out, especially spar. And I definitely feel better than if I had partied all night. For myself, MA has been a positive influence, maybe because I am generally an angry drunk.

  5. #45

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    The statement about the wrestlers doesn't suprise me. Kids that want to combat each other in a violent, full contact sport are going to have a predeliction for violence, before they start. Wrestling is a combat sport. It's funny that we are even having this dicussion. Martial Arts are basically derived from military games, to get recruits ready to conquer other people and cultures. The whole character building aspect is more of a recent thing, to sort of white wash the whole thing. At one time, beating someone down and stealing their land, raping there women and taking their resources was all part of the game, if you could get away with it. That's why people trained for combat. Most of these values are now, thankfully for more people than they realize, considered antisocial.

  6. #46
    Jack Rusher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uri Shatil
    Aggression is a vice that I find too often in the wrestling team.
    I agree with the OP that students who are more likely to join the wrestling team are also likely more disposed toward direct physical contests. That such contests are common at school should be no surprise -- they serve as the final arbiter in the junior varsity league of the Hegelian Master/Slave dialectic because the young operate within a social milieu that lacks the severe reward/penalty structures of adulthood. In environments without the rule of law we see more or less the same behavior among men that we do among adolescent boys, only amplified with guns or machetes.

  7. #47

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    you know whats a strong vice, heroin.

  8. #48
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
    DAYoung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    they serve as the final arbiter in the junior varsity league of the Hegelian Master/Slave dialectic because the young operate within a social milieu that lacks the severe reward/penalty structures of adulthood.
    MOAR PLZ
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon


  9. #49
    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it Join us... or die
    Goju - Joe's Avatar
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    As someone who has taken time off due to injury I notice not training makes me a miserable sob.

    It's not just the endorphins and such from physical activity but the stress relief that comes from sparring and especially grappling I miss.

    Training makes me happy and thus makes me a better person to everyone around and a better person.

  10. #50
    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher supporting member
    DAYoung's Avatar
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    Would rockclimbing or rowing have the same effects? Or what about just getting into fights in clubs, or in the backyard with mates?
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon


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