A young Mikhail Ryabko's Systema - Ever Shifting History?

**RobP** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 9:28am

I have the full DVD, not a link. I got it in Moscow, they were available at Ryabko's school

**Lujke** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 9:29am

Hrmm, I'd quite like to see the video of Mikhail getting his ass kicked as a young man. But then, I just like seeing videos of people getting their ass kicked.

If said video exists, I don't think it'll have much bearing on my opinion about Systema, and I can't imagine why any Systemites would want to deny what they were seeing. Assuming they consider Mikhail to be a badass now, why would they want to think that he must always have been that way?

I'd certainly rather learn from an instructor who was a hopeless noob like myself at some point than someone who was 'born invincible'. The fact an instructor started out not very good and got better would suggest to me that they know how to go about improving, which is what I'd want to learn from them.

**melk** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 9:46am

There are two very good response to that, first you have to prove that he ever was, including now a badass.

Second him having learned Kung-Fu in his teens definitely denies much of his personal history that he put forth about himself.

**RobP** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 9:49am

The first is easy - try him out. There are plenty of opportunities, we provided one in the UK a month back

The second (speaking as someone who did 15-20 years kung fu prior to systema) doesnt ring true

**EricH** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 10:05am

Originally Posted by melk

There are two very good response to that, first you have to prove that he ever was, including now a badass.

Second him having learned Kung-Fu in his teens definitely denies much of his personal history that he put forth about himself.

Melk - your true colors are showing.

The video shows him getting beat as a young man. So what? Ryabko himself released the material. That seems to me to be the act of modest and confident adult.

Further, nobody in any russian martial art that I am aware of denies having a rich background in many arts and styles. Particularly the soviet owned soldier/fighters like Kadochnikov, Ryabko, and Vasiliev received intense training in a wide array of styles. It is no suprise to see Ryabko doing something that doesn't look like what he does now. Or for that matter to see him doing stylistically very different things over the years. There are many years and many miles between now and the footage in Young Master.

That said, I won't deny that the history is murky; but I have come to believe that this is the result of Soviet disinformation. Successive regimes very thoroughly rewrote history. All you can do is pick the version you like best.

**melk** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 10:29am

Nice to see that the cult knows who to rally. Ryabko cannot back up his claims of being Spets, a General(a title which is easy enough bought in Russia just ask Retuinskih or even Kadochnikov), or even who some of his more "prominent" students are. I was there when Sergey Ospishchev challenged him to a throw down and he went out the back door...

As for me this is getting tired... Systemists will line up to defend their heroes, despite what histories such as Suvorov, Lunev, or others say. We can produce Russian military records showing that both Ryabko and Vasiliev were conscripts(Vlad a telephone operator, and conscripts not eligible for Spets), but then they are in Russian and the RMA guys don't know russian, or will suddenly forget it. We could give translation but then they would call them forgeries. So if this topic is going to continue down this path, I see no point in continuing. Now if we were to look at and compare other arts that also have shifiting histories that could be interesting.

As for my true colors, I have never made any attempt at hiding the fact that I don't like Systema. As far as knowing all about Systema, I have an instructors Cert in it(earned after a single week) if anyone would like to see just let me know and I will post it.

**RobP** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 10:45am

So post it and all your other evidence, then take a video camera and knock out Ryanko et al.
Nothing to do with cults or heros, I'm not interested in either. But show me something concrete or actually do something away from your keyboard.

**EricH** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 10:56am

Right - I am a cultist who was summoned to defend the holy systema. Have fun with your bad self Melk.

:eusa_danc

One thing on which we are in complete agreement is that this is not worth arguing about.

Though I will point out that you are much like my wife in that you will make controversial statements and then accuse me of being somehow corrupt or unfaithful when I question them or point out that those statements are at best cynical opinion and do not necessarily reflect fact.

you: certified instructor in 1 week.

Me: 10 years, still not certified.

**Ryno** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 10:58am

It's no big deal to see someone getting beaten up in their youth. It's happened to anyone who has trained hard. Or more specifically, it should to anyone who genuinely tests themselves in training. ****, I just got my ass handed to me at Judo last night. This in no-way indicates someone's skill level decades later.

However if someone gets their ass kicked but doesn't learn from the whipping, then they've got problems. If they are an instructor, then maybe the system has problems.

**Askari** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 12:43pm

Originally Posted by RobP

So post it and all your other evidence, then take a video camera and knock out Ryanko et al.
Nothing to do with cults or heros, I'm not interested in either. But show me something concrete or actually do something away from your keyboard.

Seconded.