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  1. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:12pm


     Style: Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    7-this other guy is saying it's not for self defense, but it's for self defense....come on. any sport that involves balance can help...most hocky players could level your average guy....cardio, muscle control etc.....why bother being pissed in YMAS?
    I'm assuming I'm the other guy. If I am then I think your reading between some lines that don't exist. I never once said that Aikido wasn't for self-defense. I'm not pissed either. I like where most of this and a few other threads have gone. I see some valid points to what people have said. One of the most valid is that most, if not all, training in Aikido doesn't teach contending on the ground. Now I don't want to be on the ground, and if I end up there I want to get out. I am trying to incorporate aspects of Judo and BJJ that work towards getting my ass out of a ground situation. Because I am still very new to these aspects and because I don't have enough training time I'm going very slowly. It ain't a race for me.

    Others have mentioned that I must be in a very safe environment; I won't disagree with this. There aren't a whole lot of thugs in the shadows waiting to kick my ass, probably because I'm not a ninja. Haven't developed all those unamed and unknowable enemies. I'm not training for the next Royal-Rumble-Ultimate-Throwdown-Back-Street-Fight-Club-Pay-Per-View!!! Event. I am good with being the tortise in this race; I am good with ya'all working your asses off to become proficient as quick as possible to reach your goals for self-defense.

    Granola-Luvin'-Tree-Huggin'-Martial-Artist.
  2. aaaargh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:15pm


     Style: Inept BJJer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Spartacus
    In seven and a half years of being a Prison Officer I have never seen one Officer able to "restrain" a prisoner [not unless he's hit the offender with a baton first] But let's not talk about that lol..

    My point being is that "control and restraint" is not an application normally done by one person 1v1 - It cannot unless the person hoping to do the restraining is able to render the potential restrainee unable to fight back.

    Within Prison environments, you'll never see one officer dealing with one offender.

    This is where aikidoesk application is at its best.
    OK, but why would training compliant throws and wristlocks one-on-one make you any better at being part of a group holding somebody down?

    Edit- Either I misunderstand your post, or you just switched sides in the discussion.
    Last edited by aaaargh; 8/21/2007 12:19pm at .
  3. aaaargh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:22pm


     Style: Inept BJJer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wait, are you just saying that the only time you can afford to think about not hurting the guy is when you've got overwhelming odds on your side? That makes more sense...
  4. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:25pm


     Style: Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by aaaargh
    If you wanted to train to restrain and not injure a non-compliant person, why not train by restraining and not injuring non-compliant training partners? Why does training non-restraining, potentially injurious techniques on a compliant partner make more sense for this goal?
    Hey aaaargh,

    I think Spartacus and I posted somewhere back in this thread about this (Kihon, Oyo, Ara posts). I think I readily agreed that we in Aikido need to increase/add more non-compliance to the training, so that we can realistical train Henka waza, which I see as changing technique in the face of resistance; Tai sabaki, slight changes in direction when we meet resistance; and Oyo waza, small adjustments to resistance in the midst of application of a technique. At least that's where I meant to go...

    I think we DO tend to get stuck "drilling" too much in Aikido. This does not mean that every aspect of Aikido training, or even Aikido is worthless, which is the hardline stance often seen.
    Last edited by Incorrigible 1; 8/21/2007 12:27pm at . Reason: Didn't finish a thought
  5. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:33pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Spartacus
    All I'm saying is that when the **** goes down and the punching starts you cannot afford to think about not hurting that person...
    Getting to the point where you don't have to *think* about it is I believe what makes getting the ideal to a reality so freakin' hard. Reaching that point where you are able to respond that way is what Aikido tries to work towards. Sure it's hard, and it absolutely creates some dicotomy between idealogy and actual self-defense. We can still work towards it though.
  6. aaaargh is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 12:58pm


     Style: Inept BJJer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My point is less about compliance, which is a point that has been beaten to death, and more about the techniques, which seem to me less apt to work without injuring someone than a good pin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorrigible 1

    ...This does not mean that every aspect of Aikido training, or even Aikido is worthless, which is the hardline stance often seen.
    I would never call aikido training worthless. I only went to like 2 aikido classes back in college, and I was prompted to improve my toenail hygeine dramatically. This is a benefit I carry with me to this day, at this very moment.
  7. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 1:51pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok,two things : 1) incorrigeble, you probably missed my post where i asked you to tell something about your background, did you compete in anything or etc.?

    2) I'm spartacus,when my finances are up and running again, can i meet up with you guys at the td in oct?
    Im willing to resist, we can tape it and see what works?
    I love a good experiment.
  8. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 2:22pm


     Style: Aikido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell
    ok,two things : 1) incorrigeble, you probably missed my post where i asked you to tell something about your background, did you compete in anything or etc.?
    Hey Lebell,

    If it was post #83, I didn't miss it. It appears to be directed at Shinshoryu with regard to his comments about stress, adrenaline, and control.

    Regardless, I've been practicing Aikido since 1999 and did just enough of TKD in my teens to decide it wasn't what I wanted to do. I've not participated in martial arts competitions. (Before anyone jumps on that I haven't dismissed the validation that comes from those competitions. However, I do not subscribe to those competitions as the only measure though.)
  9. Lebell is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 2:31pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh mate, you're absolutely right, sorry, ive had a long and hard day at the job..
  10. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2007 2:56pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not a worry Lebell. I've been tinkering away on promotional stuff for my business since I got home from the job that actually pays me, so busy is something I can relate too. Replying here the past couple of days has been a decent "break" from working of **** I don't care to do.

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