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  1. Elbow Bomber is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 11:14am


     Style: Full Contact Brawling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    re

    Quote Originally Posted by illegalusername
    I don't know was this answered before but JESUS CHRIST it makes me angry.
    WHAT THE ****.
    For your information, sternum is an elongated flat bone connected to the ribcage with cartilage. Cartilage is the thing that makes the sternum flexible, NOT THE FUCKING BONE. And you would know this if you had a single fucking clue about the human body.

    Hitting the sternum hard enough even to crack it would require a massive amount of direct force, and usually these kinds of injuries manage a few cracks and massive damage to the surronding cartilage. In most cases when people suffer a direct hit to the sternum, the ribcage usually caves in before the sternum cracks. Your claims of "Bone splinters entering the lungs" are fucking delusional dreams of a man-child who's watched too much kung-fu movies. Even if your magic ninja fingers could deliver enough force to break the bone without breaking your own fingers, you'd achieve ripped cartilage or miniature fractures in the sternal angle.
    i thought that was probly the case otherwise there would surely be many deaths from this in mma / full contact karate tournos 'n' stuff
  2. knifehand1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 1:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju Ryu, Aikido, JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by illegalusername
    I don't know was this answered before but JESUS CHRIST it makes me angry.
    WHAT THE ****.
    For your information, sternum is an elongated flat bone connected to the ribcage with cartilage. Cartilage is the thing that makes the sternum flexible, NOT THE FUCKING BONE. And you would know this if you had a single fucking clue about the human body.

    Hitting the sternum hard enough even to crack it would require a massive amount of direct force, and usually these kinds of injuries manage a few cracks and massive damage to the surronding cartilage. In most cases when people suffer a direct hit to the sternum, the ribcage usually caves in before the sternum cracks. Your claims of "Bone splinters entering the lungs" are fucking delusional dreams of a man-child who's watched too much kung-fu movies. Even if your magic ninja fingers could deliver enough force to break the bone without breaking your own fingers, you'd achieve ripped cartilage or miniature fractures in the sternal angle.


    i thought that was probly the case otherwise there would surely be many deaths from this in mma / full contact karate tournos 'n' stuff

    Lemme guess....too much coffee today ??? I know EXACTLY what the sternum is, and I have a pretty good knowledge of anatomy as well. I never said the "FUCKING BONE" is what makes the sternum flexible. It is the cartilage that surrounds it that allows it to flex and move to accomodate the lung expansion. Your post is one that indicates you are in serious need of anger management classes. Bone splinters (as well as cartilage) entering the lungs are NOT "delusional dreams"....also, I am not a "man-child" (Im not even sure what that exactly means)....Also, I dont have "magic ninja fingers", if you noticed, I was very specific in stating that I do NOT have the capability of doing this ( I do like good kung fu movies though).
    I love your "style" that you have listed...."full contact brawling"....tell me....is that the "traditional version", or some type of offshoot art ???? I strongly suggest that you seek psychiatric assistance.
  3. knifehand1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 1:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju Ryu, Aikido, JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, and on an unrelated note....for those of you who were interested in the whole "Secret Service" dispute, I contacted the liason for the Central African Republic (or the Republic of Central Africa, whichever you prefer), and he is putting together an official letter indicating the dates that I worked WITH (again, not FOR) the Secret Service, and the capacity in which I worked. As soon as he forwards that info to me, I will pass it along to you for your "proof".
  4. illegalusername is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 1:36pm


     Style: MMA + Harmonica

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by knifehand1
    Quote:
    Lemme guess....too much coffee today ??? I know EXACTLY what the sternum is, and I have a pretty good knowledge of anatomy as well. I never said the "FUCKING BONE" is what makes the sternum flexible. It is the cartilage that surrounds it that allows it to flex and move to accomodate the lung expansion. Your post is one that indicates you are in serious need of anger management classes. Bone splinters (as well as cartilage) entering the lungs are NOT "delusional dreams"
    First off, sorry for the rant. I should have probably phrased it more nicely, but it was such a staggeringly stupid thing to say. I mean, you can read this **** from everywhere.
    I am quoting you from the WSKO forums, where you posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Jules from WSKO
    quote:You are absolutely correct, a severe fingertip strike to the solar plexus (or any plexus for that matter) is always going to be very effective. Now, although the sternum is bone, it is "soft bone, because it has to constantly "flex", so the lungs can expand and decompress upon exhalation. An extremely powerful punch, or even better, a severe fingertip strike to the sternum (again, provided that the fingertips have been conditioned enough) can cause the sternum to break. The interesting part of the break itself though, is this....since the sternum is "soft bone", it doesnt break "clean", the way an arm, or leg would, for example. The sternum actually splinters, sending what amounts to "shards" of bone into the lungs, and those "shards" cut the lungs, and the person will wind up bleeding into the lungs, and essentially drowning in their own blood.
    "Soft bone" indeed. Driving bone fragments to the lungs would require a massive force on a small area (Gunshot wounds for example). Fractured ribs cutting into lung tissue is possible and pretty usual in accidents, but in unarmed combat? You'd have to be a bastard clone child of Fedor Emelienko and Batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by knifehand1
    Quote:
    ....also, I am not a "man-child" (Im not even sure what that exactly means)....Also, I dont have "magic ninja fingers", if you noticed, I was very specific in stating that I do NOT have the capability of doing this ( I do like good kung fu movies though).
    That's the point. Nobody does. It just can not happen. Never. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by knifehand1
    Quote:
    I love your "style" that you have listed...."full contact brawling"....tell me....is that the "traditional version", or some type of offshoot art ???? I strongly suggest that you seek psychiatric assistance.
    You're mistaking me for Elbow Bomber, mang.

    Edit: Multiple edits because i don't know BBcode-fu
    Last edited by illegalusername; 9/12/2007 1:49pm at .
  5. knifehand1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 2:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju Ryu, Aikido, JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I that case, my mistake on the "full contact brawling" thing.
    Also, I know where you got the quote from, yes, I did post that on the WSKO site.
    The fact still remains though, that as difficult as it is to do, the results mentioned from a strike like that are physiologically possible....VERY difficult, yes, but nonetheless, it is totally feasible that a strike with that amount of power would, and can produce those results. Again though, for the record, I never claimed to be able to do that, and I cant imagine anyone short of at least a (legitimate) 9th or 10th degree being able to generate enough power to actually be able to produce a strike with the necessary amount of power that it would take to produce that kind of internal damage. This still doesnt change the fact that (while INCREDIBLY difficult to achieve) it is absolutely a physiological possibility. Would you at least agree with that ?.....And if your answer is "NO", please explain why (if you wouldnt mind)
  6. knifehand1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 2:41pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Goju Ryu, Aikido, JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I forgot to mention....If your quote "nobody does" was in reference to "magic ninja fingers", I suggest that you take a look at some of the hand/fingertip conditioning that can be seen in photographs of some of the older Okinawan masters.
    For example....aside from the many pics that I have in countless books, if you happened to catch the show "Human Weapon" on cable, during their training in Okinawa, you may have seen footage of the hand conditioning that was achieved by Morio Higoanna (Goju Ryu) after his 50 some odd years of training, as well as the other gentleman (name escapes me at the moment, but I think he was a Shito Ryu practicioner...but I could be wrong).....with his FINGERTIPS, he was able to do a 3 board break. Most people have enough of a hard time doing a 3 board break with a punch, let alone just using their fingertips, and he went through those boards like butter. Now what if he were to hit you in the sternum or the surrounding soft tissue full force with his fingertips ? (And we know through physics that generating that amount of power and transmitting it through such a small area as a fingertip exponentially increases the amount of force....do you still believe that strike wouldnt cause the type of inury we have been discussing ?
  7. illegalusername is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 3:12pm


     Style: MMA + Harmonica

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It would probably hurt like the ****, yes. And possibly even incapacitate a person through pain/shock/etc. Probably he would be hurtin' but still 100% operational. And in process of beating you in the face for being such a damn fool.
    Even if you've trained your fingers to be the hardest thing since diamond encrusted Awesome, and you rammed a normal, healthy person in the sternum with your middle finger, you would STILL just tear some of his cartilage, and perhaps cause minimal fracturing. Why? Bone is pretty damn resilient. The force your finger applies to the bone will spread among the bone because your finger can't actually penetrate it. To actually strike out splinters of bone your finger would have to strike clean through it, and to do that it would have to be A) be incredibly thin or B) travel at a respectable fraction of local lightspeed. And if you could do THAT, you'd probably kill him by rupturing/bruising his heart rather than "Drowning him in his own blood" And it wouldn't be quick by any measure.
    Why not ram your horrible fingers right through his damn face (which would be actually a lot easier than the craziness we are discussing) if you were hell-bent of killing him.

    I can't believe i'm still debating this. Just... argh. Where did you get this idea? If someone told you this as reality go buy them a anatomy handbook. Or if you figured it out yourself, ground yourself or make yourself go to bed without supper or something.
    Last edited by illegalusername; 9/12/2007 3:16pm at .
  8. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 3:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by knifehand1
    Oh, and on an unrelated note....for those of you who were interested in the whole "Secret Service" dispute, I contacted the liason for the Central African Republic (or the Republic of Central Africa, whichever you prefer), and he is putting together an official letter indicating the dates that I worked WITH (again, not FOR) the Secret Service, and the capacity in which I worked. As soon as he forwards that info to me, I will pass it along to you for your "proof".
    Send it to me via PM or email and I will send it to get verified by contacts in the SS. As always I will report exactly what is corresponded.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. Elbow Bomber is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 3:24pm


     Style: Full Contact Brawling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by knifehand1
    I forgot to mention....If your quote "nobody does" was in reference to "magic ninja fingers", I suggest that you take a look at some of the hand/fingertip conditioning that can be seen in photographs of some of the older Okinawan masters.
    For example....aside from the many pics that I have in countless books, if you happened to catch the show "Human Weapon" on cable, during their training in Okinawa, you may have seen footage of the hand conditioning that was achieved by Morio Higoanna (Goju Ryu) after his 50 some odd years of training, as well as the other gentleman (name escapes me at the moment, but I think he was a Shito Ryu practicioner...but I could be wrong).....with his FINGERTIPS, he was able to do a 3 board break. Most people have enough of a hard time doing a 3 board break with a punch, let alone just using their fingertips, and he went through those boards like butter. Now what if he were to hit you in the sternum or the surrounding soft tissue full force with his fingertips ? (And we know through physics that generating that amount of power and transmitting it through such a small area as a fingertip exponentially increases the amount of force....do you still believe that strike wouldnt cause the type of inury we have been discussing ?
    a few years ago i was pushing a friend around in this kart we'd made, driven by a broom handle. then he drove it straight into a doorstep and i ran full pelt into the broom handle straight in my sternum behind him.

    i actually thought i was dying it was the first time i had ever been really properly winded, you know where your breatyhing actually stops and you cant breathe at all for maybe 20 or 30 seconds. my mom took me to the hospital for an x-ray the next day cos the bruising was so bad but luckily i still didnt die of bone shards to the lungs.

    i dont think any karate master can hit that hard with his fingertips, this is kung-fu fantsy stuff IMO
  10. sambosteve is offline
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    Stillness is death

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    Posted On:
    9/12/2007 8:50pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     NY Combat Sambo Style: combat sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have been out a few days because the storm here in NYC messed up my internet...again!

    So, in brief...

    Samuel, I did contact Peter Urban's Daughter and the USA goju organization (the only authorized one by Urban) and asked about Kirk. Their e-mail is posted in the thread a few pages back. Basically, no answers from them yet.

    Regarding the physiology debate...I stayed away from that one because it really is not relevant...and I see so many people on these forums spewing out incorrect anatomy & physiology. For the record, I work in Pediatric oncology and ER as a medical educator and therapist for nearly 10 years, on the pediatric faculty at Maimonides Medical Center in brooklyn (before I opened my school). Prior to that, I also worked rehab for a 2 years, and I am NYS licensed massage therapist as well. Yes, the physiology as desribed here is generally not correct, but does not really matter here in my opinion. I have studied A&P both in school and practically on the job, so I have a basic idea of what I am talking about.

    Mr. Hoenig,

    Regarding my professionalism here, I would hope everyone would behave that way. But, I appreciate your appreciation...LOL. In any event, my e-mail and office phone are public knowledge and have always been available on my website (www.ussambo.com or www.nycombatsambo.com). You can feel free to e-mail/call me anytime. I will say though, that I don't want to become a go-between for you and I will post the guts of our discussions as it relates to questions here.

    To recap, here are my questions regarding the SPCC:
    I have several questions like:
    How can a Hawaii SPCC agent legally work in NY if the NY SPCC hes was working for was not yet incorporated and thus, you could not have been sworn in NY? How could a New Yorker get sworn in for a Hawaii SPCC if they presumably would never work in Hawaii? How would a Hawaii SPCC agent get sworn in NY as a peace officer? Did kirk ever complete the incorporation? There are many questions in regard to your SPCC activities.

    I find it a bit hard to swallow that you have no evidence at all of your SPCC agent status or Peace Officer status in NY or Hawaii, etc. Why would Kirk have all the paperwork...especially if he was not living in NY. What if you needed it as the one operating in NY?
    Lastly, as an aside...
    I do feel uncomfortable with the title "investigator". Anyone who knows me on this forum knows that I generally am much more of a lurker who occassionally posts. When I do post, it is rarely in "investigations"...though I have participated in some. Yes, I have been more involved in this thread than I usually get in others...mainly because of personal interest in children's services, the fact that it is in NY, and general interest in the way it developed/claims made my Mr. Hoenig. However, I consider myself an interested forum member with some knowledge on subjects discussed...not an "investigator" per se. That makes me sound more important than I am here on bullshido.
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