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  1. #11
    Community Corrections Officer supporting member
    Matt W.'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL @ that jujigatame in the first vid! Worst armbar ever.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickcatcher
    Kata is silly, but in TaeKwonDo they have Patterns which are completely different and actually quite good for fitness and balance. :gaygay:
    I consider them linked...

  3. #13
    Teh El Macho's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    LOL @ that jujigatame in the first vid! Worst armbar ever.
    LOL @ the "oooooohs" and "aaaaaaaahs" that came out of that crowd :tongue3:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

  4. #14
    Community Corrections Officer supporting member
    Matt W.'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know they only added that stuff AFTER the UFC/MMA became so popular.

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    You know they only added that stuff AFTER the UFC/MMA became so popular.
    I belived the same thing. But I have a video from a guy in the north korean demo team doing a jujigatame in 1992 (I think...).

  6. #16
    Kintanon's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There has always been some Judo/Jujitsu/Hapkido/TKD crossover. My TKD instructor spent 20 years in Judo before he opened his TKD school (He spent about 10 years in TKD) for a while he would add some Judo techniques into the curriculum (before my time unfortunately) but since the TKD stuff really paid better he phased those out within a year or two. But I wouldn't be surprised to see TKD schools that had a little crappling thrown in, and maybe even the splash of legit Judo at some of them prior to the UFC. I imagine there are a TON with all kinds of crappling now though.

  7. #17

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    LOL @ the "oooooohs" and "aaaaaaaahs" that came out of that crowd :tongue3:
    you sir must not have seen too many TKD demo's then.... people OHHH and AHHHH when 5 year olds break through rice paper boards.... and do rediculous self defense moves...

  8. #18
    Community Corrections Officer supporting member
    Matt W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djimbe II
    It is not unreasonable to ask what is the nature of these drils, whether the particular practitioners in that video understand it, and whether there might be better ways to achieve the same purpose.
    These are the key questions. My ealry TKD training involved a lot of 3 step and 1 step sparring similar to what is seen in these videos, though (I said it before and I'll say it again) these guys do it really well and better than we did. The reason we did them is stated as this on my old org's website.

    Formalized sparring begins with 3-step sparring and goes through variations into 1-step sparring. With 3-step students are introduced to two basic blocks against a punch, and, through control of timing, are taught how to deflect (not just hit) an attack with those blocks. Students learn timing and control at this white-belt stage when their power is relatively limited rather than waiting until later when they have developed more power to try to control - mistakes hurt less now. Students also begin to learn at this stage which blocks go best with various counter-attacks. Eventually kick attack possibilities are added along with the appropriate blocks and counter-attack responses for them. 1-step sparring condenses the three step attack, blocks/guard and counter-attack skills learned in 3-step into just a one-punch attack and response.

    So, according to this the purpose of step sparring is to develop timing, defense, counter-attacks and control (and though not mentioned one must also assume proper movement and footwork). There is a drill that exists that develops all those things, but does so with complete aliveness, the ability to really hit and be hit, and more realistic footwork, movement, timing and distance. That drill is working focus mits with a partner.

    One stpes like this do not develop proper timing because the distance is off (due to the non-contact), the footwork is unrealistic and the attacker simply stands there and lets the defender perform their routine. One steps do not develop proper defense because the attacks are totally unrealistic and the timing and distance are off. One steps do not develop proper counter attacks for the same reasons. ANd they do not develop control. It takes real control to hit your target in an alive situation, with power and proper technique. Instead, in these one steps they simply don't hit at all, which in addition to developing a bad habit of pulling your punches, actually requires very little control.

    This is not simply a matter of "HURR HURR TKD sux!!!" TKD has a lot to offer. But step sparring is innefectual at best, and actually teaches you to do things wrong at the worst. It needs to be abandoned.

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with you to a large extent Matt.

    I've viewed one steps as a way to introduce a student to striking at another person. An equivalent of learning a new jiujitsu technique and drilling it on a non resisting partner. Working out the perfect way to do it in an ideal environment before adding imperfections to the environment. I can't really take that quote you put up seriously because there is a lot wrong with it, things you've already pointed out. And I'm sure focus mitts are a great help, we work them every class. But this sort of one step drilling helps in seeing where you can hit with various techniques. To clarify, I am not recommending this training method, but rather looking at its uses.

    Obviously one steps went south somewhere along the line. I believe they went south when forms centric teachers conflated goals and methods of one step drills with goals and methods of forms. So you get these form-drills that have extremely limited use. They became more and more idealized to the point of not being applicable to sparring, as drills should be, and not conveying any sort of concepts or techniques as forms should. That's where you get those wide starting stances and techniques clearly taken out of forms.

    To repeat, one steps have their use. But like many of TKD's teaching, they've been confused and misused and plainly done wrong.

  10. #20
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt W. has answered the correct.

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