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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Jan 2006
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    Orlando, Florida
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    3,378

    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 4:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muse Haunt
    The mission statement of the Grill, summed up in one line, is solid - “To foster real Martial growth, using real methods, in the real world.” That doesn't seem to be extending to a single aspect of the Grill in practice, though. I think the instructors need to strip the Grill down to that sentence, make a bunch of big ass posters with that sentence, and have that sentence always right in front of your face when developing any and ALL aspects of The Grill. On that note – any quibbles with their mission statement?
    Thanks for posting. That "mission statement" seems general and broad enough to encompass any viriety of training...which is exactly what most "mission statements" do.

    However, the HOW is much more important than the WHAT here.

    The WHAT (mission statement) is good, but the HOW (the training/instruction used to foster that statement) is absolute **** that will get someone hurt in the exact scenario the mission statement is referring to.

    Honestly, I don't care how good and theoretically effective you tell me Monkey Kung-fu is, when push comes to shove my money is on the insert one of the following (collegiate wrestler, thai fighter, BJJ practitioner, Boxer, MMA fighter, Judoka, KyuKushin, etc...) if he and the monkey kung-fu guy meet in a dark alley. Why? because the former rely on good solid, PROVEN, foundational fighting techniques that have been proven to be effective in a fully resistant setting.

    "attempting to find your own style through the VoId" is plain old Penn&Teller bullshit. If you are shitty or inexperience fighter who would like to learn how to fight or defend yourself, you need to train under someone who is a legitimate and respected fight instructor; not some guy who beats on a terrified girl and goes home thinking he knows how to fight.
  2. Chaotic is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 4:23pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I watched more of the videos and the whole thing is disturbing me more and more.

    There is a complete and utter lack of skill with all of the people involved.

    The whole purpose of the place seems to be to feed the overinflated ego of the instructor.

    Girls are treated as silly little toys who should be condescended and are incapable of actual fighting. In one of the videos the commentator and others make jokes about it being a "Bitch fight" and a "cat fight". I think the "instructor" makes meowing noises. While I can understand the odd crack from other gym members, the fact that the entire environment seemed based around mocking girls fighting was revolting. I've known lots of girl fighters who could beat the living **** out of the "instructor" of that school.

    Even though they are completely incompetent at fighting, that doesn't mean that occasionally a blow will land hard, or someone will fall wrong. I don't think the people at the "dojo" are prepared for any sports related injuries.

    At the end of the video Keijou vs. Hadou the girl takes a knee to the gut, falls over in agony holding her stomach and the instructor says "Is that a tap? Is that a tap?"

    The Firsty "hazing" was just an indication of the rank and pecking order that gets established early on. The whole thing is centered around the "instructor" establishing dominance by shoving around his "students".

    The idea that biting and hairpulling are allowed is idiotic.

    Honestly I think that they should go and LARP. It's what most of them really want to do. I don't mean that in a bad way either. Most of the people in those videos are not fighters. They want to do over-stylized impressions of anime fighting. That's fine, but they are going to hurt each other because their "instructor" has been reading Bullshido and wants to make his "art" legit.

    I enjoy doing dorky ****. I like D&D and sci-fi movies. I see nothing wrong with having a club of friends who are into that kind of stuff.

    But if you really want to learn how to fight, go to a real gym. You would be humble and wise beyond your years if you could go to the local BJJ club, see how badly your fighting skills actually are and then commit yourself to learning from people who actually know their stuff.

    You would also not lose any face by letting your students know this and inviting them to join you at the BJJ club. In the end you will be doing everyone including yourself a big favor.
  3. sochin101 is offline
    sochin101's Avatar

    Graviora Manent

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 4:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: No gym currently.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rag-dolling a total newb is what assholes do, whether you write it down in your mission statement or not.
  4. Muse Haunt is offline

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    Ohio
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 4:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TKD/Freestyle

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Thanks for posting. That "mission statement" seems general and broad enough to encompass any viriety of training...which is exactly what most "mission statements" do.

    However, the HOW is much more important than the WHAT here.

    The WHAT (mission statement) is good, but the HOW (the training/instruction used to foster that statement) is absolute **** that will get someone hurt in the exact scenario the mission statement is referring to.
    I'm truncating your post down to this, because this is pretty much what I was going for in my original post. Being a history student, though, I'm more inclined to ramble on a bit rather than be so succinct. I'm not arguing that the Grill is a good learning ground - on the contrary, I will not train there myself at this point and would not recommend it to anyone. I do maintain that it does have potential, and that is what I'm trying to focus on.
  5. jtkarate is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 4:52pm


     Style: karate,judo,JJ,Aikido,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well as we can see looks as if monk has vanished until the sun goes down.

    All it boils down to is they are a bunch of tards that dont know what the hell they are doing and are going to get some one killed.

    But since they all associate with the living dead I guess that won't be such a bad thing.

    this pisses me off to no end...you have people who put in time and effort to become good at what they do ...and then you get these dumasses who watch to much highlander and goth stuff and think they can keep you safe from a mugger.

    You guys are not reinventing the wheel or even using one. Your "students" would learn more effective fighting techniques by going to a kindergarden class then from what you are "teaching" them.
  6. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 5:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think these guys are doing the right thing.

    They should start their own university while they're at it.

    Don't worry what other philosophers, scientists, doctors or engineers have done. Just start from scratch. Don't worry about degrees - that's just rank.

    The Auchenflower University of the Void.

    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

  7. ScyberMonk is offline

    Registered Member

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    A little bit of everywhere.
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 5:55pm


     Style: Way of the Void

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My sincerest apologies for not replying for so long. I came home last night, and for some reason, could not access the site. Not entirely sure why, but there you go.

    First things first. I havn't sidestepped anything...I've given you answers you either don't like, or don't want to accept. Not giving you answers that fit you isn't sidestepping.

    Secondly, the vampire fetish thing. Think what you like, but I fail to see what random cultural sub group I choose to be in has anything to do with anything. But I'm sure you will tell me alllll about it.

    Thirdly, since it's a hot topic, the firsty spar thing. Yes, I dance around, and I am goofy. This is to set the smaller students at ease, help the new students relax a bit, and to demonstrate one of the stranger core concepts of what is taught in the Grill. Plus, I think it's funny.

    In regards to my spar with Fel. Yes, I got hoisted. He picked me up in the air, as I put him in the headlock that caused him to tap. I knew that he wouldn't be able to put any kind of hold on me from his position, so I felt no reason to be alarmed as I went in for the headlock. It doesn't look very pretty, and I will admit the lift surprised me, but in the end, it didn't matter. Also....if you watch the End of Class spar with him, you can see the difference in tactics between a Firsty and an End of class spar. But I'm sure you'll have some derogatory comments about that, as well.

    "They want to do over-stylized impressions of anime fighting." What the hell? WHat over stylizations are you referring to, mm? And for the record, the only thing I have read and added to the 'curriculum', was a biting excercise I got from Black Belt Magazine. S'it, really.

    And yes, we employ biting, and hair pulling. I even teach proper finger placement for gouging. Why not? You CANNOT tell me that if ANY of you got me in a ring...and some of you will...that wouldn't target my longass hair. And if I am in a pinch, and someone has a fleshy bit near to my mouth, why SHOULDN'T I bite? It's weird, it freaks the opponent out, and can, in many cases, cause them to let go all together...thus freeing you from your bad position.

    You seem to advocate not using every weapon at your disposal. Why the hell would you do this?

    JOHNNY FIVE: Unfortunately, when I first started teaching, I did not have access to a digital camera that could record more than five seconds of time, so I didn't have the ability to record any firsty spars. I am well aware that fighting tiny, inexpereinced people doesn't prove a damn thing in regards to my ability to fight. Those videos are not there to prove I can fight. They are there so the student can review them. But I have fought people as good as me, better than me, and bigger than me. In one instance, I wasn't able to achieve a clear victory, so we just fought until we both decided it was time for sushi. And against someone capable of inflicting egregious bodily damage, I wouldn't let my hands drop low, they would be right up where I need them. As I pointed out, my tactics suit my opponent. Pretty much everyone has disagree'd with this, and that's great, people should have their own opinion. As for appropriate reaction, when the technique is initially taught, so they can get the feel for it, there is no resistence. That lasts maybe two lessons, then, every time the technique is practiced, there is resistence, dodging, and counters on the part of the target. There's no point in practicing a technique on a dummy who isn't going to fight back. If i wanted that, I would go buy a dummy who..er...can't fight back. heh. And I prefer to fight people my size. Fighting tiny people doesn't help me develop myself, and I am in class to learn just as much as my students are.

    DJRand...Sensei means teacher. And like it or not, I am teaching.

    GOLDENJONAS: Nice list. If I am in Florida....I will absolutely look you up. As I plan to make a DisneyWorld trip sometime in the next year, that may well happen. And you seem to have completely missed the point of Firsty Sparring. They havn't learned ANYTHING by that point. We've done stretching and had noodles. That's it. Firsty Sparring is a formality for them, and it is explained that if they really don't want to fight, all they have to do is tell me, and I will walk over, lightly tap their shoulder, and then they tap. It's happened alot with people who simply weren't ready for it, and there's nothing wrong with it. And, again, I didn't evade a damn thing. Not giving you the answers you want isn't evasive...at best, it's annoying. So, perfor you go frothing at the mouth again, try to actually figure out what goes on in those videos.

    Also, something else I would like to point out. There seems to be the impression that I fight these guys to increase my ego...where that the case, I imagine there would be more end of class spar's with me in them, mm? No one has to fight me at the end of class unless they want to.

    KISMASHER: I work with what I have.

    CHAOTIC: I pick up skills wherever I can. I have never once put down the opportunity to learn something new from anyone. Hell, even from this tearing into I am learning things...mostly where there are people in the area's where I will be that I can spar, but other things as well.

    KRAZY KAJU: I don't have a single certificate to teach any particular martial art. And if I did at one point? I don't know. I know, I know, that one IS a bit evasive, but again, I don't like the idea of a piece of paper.

    DAGORILLA: Which ones? The american ones? We were just practicing the Pell, while wearing long coats. We did that pretty much for that look.*chuckle* It wasn't any actual sword fighting, hence the goofing off portion of the title.

    SOCHIN: At what point, exactly, do I proclaim myself a master of anything? Is there a copy and paste book for you guys to slam people with? We don't dress up, and we aren't pretending to do anything other than fight. So...where, precisely, are you getting that from?

    As for Migaru's and Tsuyoi's firsty match...I can't help that the camera cut out, but I do have sparring video's from later that day, so when I get them up, you will see she didn't suffer anything even remotely debilitating. She wasn't even hurt. And yes, I did swing her by her arm. She left it out there, and I thought it would be funny. She was utterly unharmed by it, and she doesn't leave her arm out there any more.

    IT IS FAKE: I am not teaching them to push punch, are you daft? I do teach a push kick, yes. But not a push punch. And what's wrong with the Walk videos? You try those excercises, and come back and tell me they aren't good. And lastly...well, i could say I have both, but I am not actively pursuing a local MA tournament, with the link provided to me earlier. So we'll see how I do, and go from there.

    And JTKARATE...that analogy doesn't make an ounce of sense. I don't just tell people I am good, I invite them to spar me. Anyone who comes to my class spars me. Then they go through the class, and decide if they want to come back the following week. It would be like watching you perform said surgery, and then deciding if I wanted you to perform it on me. I think the news has recently proven that despite certification, people still can't do what they say.

    Lastly...and I apologize if I missed anything that needed discussion, feel free to repost...DEADMEAT: I have similar restrictions on my time, however, I am usually free on Thursdays. Are thursday nights good for you? Possibly wednesday nights?
  8. djrand is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 6:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: judo, bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DJRand...Sensei means teacher. And like it or not, I am teaching.
    I can teach someone how to change a car tire, it doesnt award me the title of sensei.

    I like this definition.

    The formal, polite honorific used when addressing someone who is an accomplished professional. doctors, teachers, professors, scientists, and other specialists are addressed in this way.
    While I`m sure disagree, you are none of these things.


    EDIT:
    I dont wish to pursue that particular topic any further, its getting away from the point. What you are doing is dangerous, you can provide videos of the two girls later in class in fine health if you want, its not the point. The point is what happened with those two girls was undeniably DANGEROUS. It readily redirects us back to your qualifications. What qualifies you to hand a human being in such a way?

    You may also spout this bullshit all you want about you not evading questions, and that the posters just dont like your responses. You are evading. You have been asked several times about your previous training, even aside from certificates and instructors. You refuse to even divulge what if any other styles you have possibly trained in. Would you not find this suspicious when reviewing a martial arts instructor?
    Last edited by djrand; 8/14/2007 6:17pm at .
  9. ScyberMonk is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 6:17pm


     Style: Way of the Void

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm looking around on Google, have been since I posted, but, CHAOTIC, I am having a bit of a time finding any MMA tournaments. I could simply be looking in the wrong place.
  10. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 6:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scybermonk
    Sensei means teacher. And like it or not, I am teaching.
    'Sensei' has a great deal of cultural capital attached to it. In a Western martial arts context, it implies familiarity with Japanese culture, and expertise in Japanese skills (whether or not these work is another matter).

    To use it without being a bona fide member of a Japanese martial arts organisation or community is to earn the capital without having done the work, and made the investments.

    It's a kind of theft.
    Last edited by DAYoung; 8/14/2007 6:42pm at .
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

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