Posted On:8/13/2007 4:59am
Style: Judo/TKD noob/BJJ noob
I was looking at the forums recently...yes I am new!
and I found an item desperetly needing to be adressed.
I live in NZ and one day I met a guy named monk, we had a friendly chat and stuff and he seemed like an o.k. guy. But when we got on to the topic of Martial Arts he told me about his 'art' "the way of the void" so I listened to his perspective of traditional arts and such...and started to think wait a second, this is not right!
He began to talk of such things as pitting his students up against each other the first time they are come. This guy is only about 26 By the way. I suggest you all check out his website and give him a comment on the 'feedback' section...read the articles and watch the video's please! please! this guy must be taught a lesson!
this also says it all http://vampirerave.com/profiles2.php?profile=Scybermonk
A few exerpts from the site.
At first, it started very simply. The young man, now referred to by the name his own Sensei had given him, Tatsu, began to teach the co-worker, now called Kuma, in the ways of the young mans original style, and also in the useage of weapons (with the exception of Arnis techniques, of which Kuma was versed in, and taught to Tatsu). Eventually, Tatsu decided to take Kuma as an Apprentice, first purely in swordsmanship, but when the position of Apprentice was solidifed in the Way of the Void, he remained in that state. They began to teach their friends, and steadily attracted more people, all the while refining the nature of the Void, and the reasons for the Grill's existence.
The Grill was founded on a number of principles, but one of the biggest was, to put it as close to exactly as it was discussed between Kuma and Tatsu, one sweaty afternoon at the site of the first Grill..."Let's re-invent the wheel!."
PLEASE GO TO THE SITE PLZ HELP!!!!!
Sexiest Punching Bag Alive
Posted On:8/13/2007 7:00am
Although very goofy, and very unskilled. They do have videos of them sparing with actual contact. I'm not sure what I would call this. On one hand, sparing video usually means good. But on the other hand these people spar like teenage girls with no training. (At least in the first 5-6 videos including the one that said MUST see).
I'd like to hear their side. I havn't found anything yet making claims that are too crazy. My current take is LARPer's who actually hit each other.
Last edited by FictionPimp; 8/13/2007 7:03am at .
"a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
Posted On:8/13/2007 7:25am
Style: Goju, mixed
It's very, very different... and the people in the pics seem... different as well.
But none of that means it's bad.
Basically it's a group of people looking for self-discovery of self-defense. As they say somewhere on that site, they are looking to reivent the wheel.
Posted On:8/13/2007 7:38am
Style: Shotokan Karate, ITF TKD
i cant figure the website out, it just seems like they're gonna start advertising a BBQ with every page i open. It made me hungry
Posted On:8/13/2007 8:12am
It really is very confusing and difficult to classify these guys/girls.
Although "highly unskilled emo's who train with modicum of aliveness" comes to mind.
No one really seems to actually engage or push the "matches" and when they do it looks like backyard wrassling. They talk about full contact (with the exception being head and groin) and even state that biting is allowed....BITING!!!!???? But all of the matches I saw were slap and tickle kicks and punches with horrific crappling thrown in for good measure.
Horribly elongated stances, goofy krotty arm placement, awful footwork, awful (or NO) standup defense, simply embarrassing groundwork.....but, on the bright side, at l;east they are trying.
Didn't feel like reading through the whole site to learn exactly what the "Void" stuff means so I'm not sure if it classifies as bullshido or just simply bad MA.
Posted On:8/13/2007 8:18am
Style: Way of the Void
Well, it was only a matter of time, I suppose.
Howdy! I am the aforementioned Monk that Conztant mentions. Amusingly enough, he actually sent me a message prior to this.
The first part read as follows:
" Monk, I met you in auckland and you told me about this....huge dissapointment man...plz dont call this a structured martial art your only gonna get people hurt...i watched some of the spar videos and it was mostly you thumping a guy 1000x smalled than you on the back. your steps wer\'nt low to the ground and you bounced when you stepped any person who has done any throwing art for a month knows how to walk properly when approaching an attacker. secondly your fists are in no structured possition meaning your underestimating the opponent...another flaw. thirdly you have no blocking position. i could go on but you get the idea. balance, focus, calmness is key, not agression. and also the main purpose of a martial artist should be to go through life never having to fight. do this but just call it fight club and plz dont pass this bullshido out man."
The second part was a very tiny one liner.
"Oh and btw there is grappling in TKD"
Oddly enough, on our Contact Us form, he lists his experience as "Judo, TKD, tai chi chuan. atimi".
Strange that he passes judgement without a: reading the site, or 2: coming to a class. Hrm.
Anyway, moving right along.
First off, I take a tiny bit of offense at the Larper designation. We aren't saying we are anything more than exactly what we are....fighters utilizing a new-ish method of combat, in a completely new and slightly bizarre atmosphere. Secondly, amusingly enough, he posts what seems to be a rather scathing review of my combat abilities. The only sparring of myself on that site are either Firsty Spars, where my abilities are gauged to match my opponent, or in the ONE end of class spar that a student challenged me to, in which I attacked with exactly the same ferocity and tenacity I expect from any one of my students. I cannot ask of them what I am unwilling or unable to show them.
TOJ: You are absolutely right. We are realllllly different, and the way we train absolutely does not appeal to the vast majority of people, which is why my class sizes stay pretty small. It's not for everyone, but for those whom it is for, it works very, very well. Which, to me, really, is the whole point.
FICTION PIMP: All I ask, when you view the videos, is to remember that none of my Aussie students have been with me for more than 8 months, on the absolute outside. They are still incredibly green. One of end of class sparrings primary principles is to help the student learn, through direct physical application, what does and does not work for them. Every student utilizes what is taught to them in a wholly different manner, and that is the big point I try to get across. If I may myself quote the site..."I can teach you to kick, but you will never kick like I do, nor should you try." But they are still striplings, and being taught things that you may not be familiar with. Wait a bit till they get some more experience under their non-existent belts, then have a gander.
Also, as a final note...every student is first required to spar me. So every single time someone joins my school, they determine, first hand, if what I know...is something they want to learn. It turns a lot of people off to it, but I don't teach people who aren't there to learn actual fighting skills. If pretty movement and inner peace are what they are after, then I direct them to the Tai Chi in the Botanical Gardens.
All I ask, before any judgement is passed on myself, the Grill, or the Void, is that any Bullshidoer actually go read the entirety of the Site.
I promise, it won't make you THAT hungry...or at least, it shouldn't.
Posted On:8/13/2007 8:26am
I didn't see GOlden Jonas before, so allow me to retort to him seperatly.
Firstly, please read my initial post. Most of what I wanted to say to your post can be answered there.
Secondly, I will again reiterate, they havn't been there that long. Of course their fighting is going to resemble highly unskilled backyard wrasslin'...at this point, that's what it is. Refinement takes time, and alot of it. Putting those videos up allows them instant access to their victories, so they can learn what they did well, and their defeats, so they can learn what not to do in the future. Plus the occasional heckly from others helps to motivate them.
And hell yes biting is allowed. This is combat. If someone has me in a grab I can't escape from, I will go all Night Of The Living Dead on their ass and take some home in a doggy bag.
And before you latch onto that and toss the whole no face/groin thing at me....bites heal. Whenever a bite is engaged, I am right there, watching, to ensure that nothing permanent is done. Whoever, a bad shot to the groin or face can permanently disable/damage/disfigure a person. I am trying to save enough money to get everyone the correct equipement, but unfortunately, I still haven't managed to cross a tree with a dollar, so we train as hard as we can, circumstances permitting.
That's all! I'll wait for more.
Fear and bullets.
Posted On:8/13/2007 8:55am
I looked though your whole site, and I can honestly say:
I don't really mind that you guys are trying to do your own thing, but you do realize that many,many,many,many people have walked this road many.many, many, many times before; and done it better.
If your goal is purely self-discovery and personal enjoyment, then no harm, no foul.
if your goal is to become a better fighter, then you are doing it the second worst way possible. (The worst being just watching kung fu movies and nothing else, at least you guys watch king fu movies and then try the **** out.)
Where I become very concerned is if your students do not understand what they are getting. If you are claiming to offer effective self-defense and combat training, then you are leading them astray. Sorry. But you yourself in your profile express that you will not "let you bullshit you" so I am returning the favor. You may be learning and discovering on your won, but you are no fighter or instructor. You may be getting there (slowly), but you are not ready to teach people. Once again..if everyone knows what they are getting, then no harm, no foul.
But don't for one second let them think that they are learning to fight well. That would be very dishonest.
And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".
--Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
Posted On:8/13/2007 8:59am
Hmmm all I can say is 8 months is quite awhile to look that poor.
What are the rules in the matches?
Please don't give me that we have no rules either.
Originally Posted by doofaloofa
Posted On:8/13/2007 9:00am
ok I read the site and watched the videos and I have a few questions
1. what is your original style you studied in ?
2. Who trained you?
3. Do you have any other certifications?
Because from what I have seen it is nothing more than a bunch of people with NO training just slapping around on each other.
I will say that I did get a chuckle from you trying to add some sort of levity to the MA world by naming your "school" bar and grill.
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