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  1. looks2ce is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 5:10pm


     Style: Baguazhang

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Askari - where do you live. A lot of the guys who do this type of sparring stay pretty quiet. You may be surprised at who is around you.
  2. stjohnwayne is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 5:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I'll admit I was pretty impressed with the competition in those videos too. My degree was in history too, so if its a valid attempt to restore something lost to hollywood sword-slashing, then that's great. I might even be interested to take a look at that book of his. Anybody on here read it?
  3. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Apr 2005
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 5:57pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by looks2ce
    Askari - where do you live. A lot of the guys who do this type of sparring stay pretty quiet. You may be surprised at who is around you.
    Hi Looks2ce,

    I used to live where there was a group training, but not right now.

    Hopefully once again there will be the opportunity, more then the occasional seminar etc.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  4. Donkey_Fizzle is offline

    Using Donkey Guard to Sniffz Your Feetz

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    between the moutains and some sagebrush
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 6:07pm


     Style: Kick Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    If he's working from a series of old books ( well, that's what they are) and there isn't a surviving practitioner of these arts then how in the HELL can the organization he's with have a ranking system? The website lists (for example) to qualify for master:
    • The candidates that have access to an IMAF master and must train with him/her for an appropriate period of time.
    • The candidate must be presented to the examination board by that master training the candidate. Candidates that do not have access to an IMAF master locally may test for masters certification by presenting an independent study and paper. This study must encompass all of the requirements and criteria of IMAF.
    • A formal letter of intention to test with the International Masters at Arms Federation must be initially submitted by the candidate. Following this, a formal presentation must be made of his/her study which must be representative of the work and research that the candidate has done to that point. All work must be historically accurate and verifiable/documented within the period treatises. If accepted a candidate must then fulfill the requirements of IMAF in order to be eligible to test for Master at Arms.
    But once again. We're talking about dead arts. Medieval swordsmanship/boxing/and wrestling all died out. Only their modern sport counterparts are found. So, you've got a bunch of grown men reading books, looking at pictures and playing dress up so they can run around with swords and pretend to be nights. I'm sure later on they hold parties, call themselves lord and lady, and bugger their happy brains out.
    Thanks for the website, a good laugh. And now I need to puke.
    Step up and fight them then and have your ass handed to you. I despise people who piss on history about as much as I despise people who act like hardasses on a computer.
    Amateur MMA record: 8-3-1
    Pro MMA record: 3-1
    Status: Semi retarded... I mean retired
  5. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 6:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by stjohnwayne
    Well, I'll admit I was pretty impressed with the competition in those videos too. My degree was in history too, so if its a valid attempt to restore something lost to hollywood sword-slashing, then that's great. I might even be interested to take a look at that book of his. Anybody on here read it?
    If you mean Pete Kautz's book on Medieval German dagger and wrestling, it's long out of print, but there are numerous other books covering this material: http://www.amazon.com/Western-Swords...d_i=1581604106

    If you have a history degree, I would hands-down recommend Sydney Anglo's "Martial Arts of Renaissance Europe" - http://www.amazon.com/Martial-Arts-R.../dp/0300083521 . Anglo is a professional historian and this book is the most important contribution to scholarship in this area for the past hundred years (breaking the record previously held by Egerton Castle, "Schools and Masters of Fence", which has also recently been re-printed. Note that Anglo's book is not a "how-to" guide, though, it's a scholarly investigation.
  6. stjohnwayne is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 8:01pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks DdlR, I'll check those out too
  7. The Crack Taoist is offline

    I got an axe to grind

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    May 2003
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 11:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: thai.kali.no-gi.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropic777
    Well, Ramon is a legitimate classical fencing master, in that he studied under a master who had been certified by a board examination (I forget which French certifiying body Rohdes got his maitre d'armes cert from, but such bodies still exist in France, Italy and the US for classical fencing lineages see here: http://www.northwestacademyofarms.com/aboutteacher.htm for a good example).

    IMAF is an independent body created by Martinez and some others to attempt to give legitimacy to western martial arts instructors. There is a great deal of disagreement about whether it does so or not, and many people choose to simply ignore it. It's a widely held opinion that there can't be any sort of certifying body specifically because these are dead lineages. Some schools certify instructors, but that's mostly them being tested on whether they actually know the material and have some ability to teach, no 'mastery' is implied. [/url]
    As I said.. the IMAF gives the *possibility* of something being better.. rather than implying
    it's likely to be worse.

    If someone ignores a organization attempting to raise the quality bar or establish
    standards... then you judge them on their own merits (they may suck, they may be
    ok, maybe they are great.. who knows.. you have to go and see..).

    It makes sense though that if someone is attempting to check and verify what
    they are doing with some bigger organization formed by the ostensible experts...
    one could reasonably expect that someone to be nitpicky about their own quality.

    As you said.. it's important to distinguish between the LARPers, the SCA types,
    and the genuine reconstructionist WMAers.

    I've said it before.. if I was in NYC ,even though FMA is my thing, Martinez would
    be the first instructor I would take up with. His skills are top-notch, his creds
    are top-notch.. and he is the humblest, nicest guy in person I've ever visited,
    no lie.
    let's talk about why fat-fu shall we?
  8. misanthropic777 is offline
    misanthropic777's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2007 1:53am

    supporting member
     Style: .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    If you mean Pete Kautz's book on Medieval German dagger and wrestling, it's long out of print, but there are numerous other books covering this material.
    I've got one, I'll ask him if he minds if I pass a copy along.
  9. misanthropic777 is offline
    misanthropic777's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Mesa, AZ
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    234

    Posted On:
    8/13/2007 2:03am

    supporting member
     Style: .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Crack Taoist
    If someone ignores a organization attempting to raise the quality bar or establish standards... then you judge them on their own merits (they may suck, they may be ok, maybe they are great.. who knows.. you have to go and see..).

    It makes sense though that if someone is attempting to check and verify what
    they are doing with some bigger organization formed by the ostensible experts...
    one could reasonably expect that someone to be nitpicky about their own quality.
    The problem being that the 'ostensible experts' are self-selected in this example. There are many researchers and instructors as good or better than Ramon and Jeanette with various historical materials. AFAIK their focus is classical French/Italian fencing, Spanish rapier and French smallsword.

    Many of the other 1st gen. folks in WMA seem to feel that the community simply isn't at a point where universal standards can be developed, and so it is still best to judge each instructor on their own merits. Yeah, it's more work for the potential student, but that's the environment at the moment.

    Heck, I run a WMA practice for Tattershall and I expect people to come out, take a look at what I do, observe me and the students, talk to them, ask around, do some research and then decide if I'm worth their time. I don't expect any affiliation I have with any group=competence.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Crack Taoist
    As you said.. it's important to distinguish between the LARPers, the SCA types, and the genuine reconstructionist WMAers.
    It's a problem, especially given th eamount of crossover between these groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Crack Taoist
    I've said it before.. if I was in NYC ,even though FMA is my thing, Martinez would be the first instructor I would take up with. His skills are top-notch, his creds
    are top-notch.. and he is the humblest, nicest guy in person I've ever visited,
    no lie.
    Ramon's a pleasant fellow, I agree. If I wanted instruction in classical fencing and I lived in NYC he's whom I would go to - he's the real deal. I've seen him turn out some top-notch fencers and teachers. But there's plenty of good teachers out there working with this material; if I had the option of simply going to wherever the best person is for what I wanted to work on (I have a former student who does this, he bops around from school to school) I'd be all over the map ;-)
  10. stjohnwayne is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jun 2007
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2007 11:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropic777
    I've got one, I'll ask him if he minds if I pass a copy along.
    Please do, I know I'd love to take a look at it myself.
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