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  1. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 8:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Most of RBSD's idea of "Pressure testing" = Bullshido

    I am among the relative few here with some sympathy for RBSD. In fact I like it, it's just that I am constantly dismayed at what is passed of as "Reality-Based Self-Defence". It's become a stigma because frankly very little RBSD today is actually realistic and even less is mentally balanced.

    Aside from the absurdity of training martial arts for the primary purpose of defending yourself, I think that any portion of martial arts training that has implied self-defence benefits should be realistic.

    And Pressure testing is a huge part of that. Except now even "pressure testing" is being misused by increasing numbers of RBSDers.

    I take my frame of reference for what pressure testing is from the likes of Geoff Thompson. In short it generally equates to heavy contact sparring though often scenario based.... i.e. one or both parties is playing to a game-plan in order to see if their training/method/approach can overcome the pressure of a resisting opponent. I.e. in order to pressure test whether a particular kick is likely to work you'd need to ensure that you use that technique in some form of pressure testing that closely replicates realistic scenarios.

    The fact that some of the scenarios RBSD people use are faulty is a separate topic, but conceptually pressure testing is a good approach and pretty much the same as the training approach of serious combat sportspersons; MMA etc.

    BUT, when I search on "Pressure Testing" on Youtube what do I get???? A load of compliant crap by guys wearing paramilitary garb implying that they are proving unrealistic methods. It's bullshidoism!

    Examples:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz6l6jERqc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz6l6jERqc
    Notice hw in the above clip the attackers take turs in attacking, offer very little resistance and both parties appear to follow a script. Compare it with this video clip from the same club... notice how they drop to the floor in almost an identical script. This is COMPLIANT yet it is described as Pressure testing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLBMpOtHIjA. They are pressure testing wrist locks against firearms, come on chaps, how realistic is that????

    Here's another one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdnS2L9z298
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdnS2L9z298
    The first secnd of that looked promising then the attacker let his knife get kicked away and stood there like a lemon so that the defender could launch a barrage of non-contact strikes. Pressure testing my foot!
    Last edited by Fantasy Warrior; 7/21/2007 10:27pm at .
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  2. pittfrog is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 8:59pm


     Style: Judo/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why do they wear their cups *over* their pants? My proper observation of the LARPing was destroyed by this peculiar method of putting on one's underwear.
  3. datdamnmachine is offline
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    Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 10:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pittfrog
    Why do they wear their cups *over* their pants? My proper observation of the LARPing was destroyed by this peculiar method of putting on one's underwear.
    I wear mine like that. It's easier to put on and take off. I usually keep it off when doing techniques and compliant drills and put it on really quick for sparring or resistance drills. But to each their own I suppose.

    I like the first video. If that is supposed to be a multiple attacker scenario then the whole "standing around and waiting for the person I'm attacking to kick my buddy's ass and then jump in technique" is sorely lacking. But I'm sure there are people out there who fight in groups that actually do this...really!
  4. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 11:50pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, that's what I think isn't Pressure Testing, now for a Youtube video that does include some better examples of pressure testing (although it's a promotional vid for a book series so some content is in a different context).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRTEHivjII
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gRTEHivjII

    And this is one of the guys the current crop of RBSDers are supposedly following, such a shame they never listened to him....
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  5. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 11:59pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That stuff looks really good. just how I'd imagine a sensible approach to RBSD should be done, with a MMA and sports delivery system.
  6. Nickeroon1987 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 11:59pm


     Style: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Hey, you--"

    "Osu! OSU! OSUOSUOSUOSU!!!"
  7. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 12:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    That stuff looks really good. just how I'd imagine a sensible approach to RBSD should be done, with a MMA and sports delivery system.
    Yeah agreed, Geoff Thompson's books and magazine articles were a great help during my gradual realisation that my (old) training wasn't fit for purpose.

    I'm sure if you dig deep enough you can find something to complain about on Geoff Thompson or Dave Turton (et al) but in general I reckon they are pretty much the best, or rather least silly, RBSDers out there.

    Having said that, I've seen some stupidity creeping into the UK RBSD community so things are going the same way as US :emo:

    BTW, going by his books I think Geoff is mostly boxing, 'modified' karate, Greco-Roman, Judo and Sombo. No BJJ as far as I'm aware but still good stuff.

    The thing where you see the fighters go to the ground and guys take their gloves off them is an attempt at keeping both a striking and grappling game going, before the advent of modern MMA training gloves.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  8. Necroth is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 2:29am


     Style: Vale Tudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Christ!

    The punch to the face routine seems to be a huge part of the training, reminiscent to Muay Thai's kicks to the rib for training to take the hit. I love it. If RBSD looked like that on a regular basis, I'd be the first one in there with a huge grin on my face while they socked my chin.

    As for the top, cute. Disarm a gun, knife and ground attack. With sloppy actions that will get you shot, stabbed or subbed. Are they teaching the guy to disarm/ reverse, or teaching the attackers what RBSD will look like and how to shoot someone, stab them or submit them when they try to use RBSD? I'll wager on the latter.
  9. kiaiki is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 5:33am


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not altogether won over:

    'Pressure' testing seems to be spoken about as if it is all about putting pressure on someone to test their bravery andf skill. This sometimes totally misses the part of the training designed to gradually build both - and beginners leave or get injured.

    I also differentiate between the braveness required for, say, a Judo competition, and the braveness needed in a street confrontation. Being buoyed up by 'competition' confidence gets your face rearranged in a bar fight.

    It's easy to scare the **** out of someone by pullling out a knife, and even easier for some Grandmaster to show his favourite crappy disarm when he is totally in control of events.

    It's not so easy to scare him if the person attacked has gradually built familiarity over time with wooden and steel weapons, felt fear and come close to injury in training. Note, I don't claim the street attack will be easily dealt with, just that less fear will be invloved.

    Personally, I know very few martial arts instructors who don't own up to fear - either in training or on the street. A good dog trainer knows when a snarling dog is aggressive or afraid and has confidence in how he should behave towards it. IMHO 'pressure' testing should provide the ability to make a good guess if your attacker/potential attacker is actually more afraid than you are - and the ability to make him believe it too, allowing you to take control.

    So to be 'realistic' we should apply enough 'pressure' to create appropriate fear and adrenaline in training or the whole aspect of realism is lost. It's not pressure testing if you know your attacker in training won't hurt you - it's only 'pressure' if you are worried that he might do just that.
    Last edited by kiaiki; 7/22/2007 5:47am at .
  10. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 5:40am

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     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you may have misunderstood the term "pressure testing". The term means to test techniques under pressure. The judo/bjj armbar works under the "pressure" of a resisting opponent, fighting back, who knows the armbar and how to escape from them. This means that we can be pretty certain that it is also effective in a self-defense situation, with the amount of effectiveness proportional to the similarity to the training.

    Well, that's what I always took it to mean.
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