Bullshido at Eastern Michigan?

**GTBurns** · Posted On: 8/05/2007 10:49pm

Back several years ago I took TKD for my Phys Ed credit at EMU. I liked it and took the class for several other semesters until other school related responsibites took over. Now as I look back, and reading some of the info on this site I now suspect this class was mired in Grade A Bullshido.

The class was not afiiliated with the WTF or the ITF, but the UTB the Universal TKD Brotherhood, an organization that was created by the class Grand Master. Now looking back this reeks of being a insular circle jerk to avoid scrutiny or the higher standards of another organization. Face it the class was basically a blowoff so students could get 3 basic studies credit hours out of the way.

Now I learned, that this class is no longer recognized as a credit earning class for basic studies. RED FLAG right there. But classes are still held at the University....OKAY.

If you look at his GM's credentials at the Website

http://www.utbtaekwondo.us and check out his credentials, You get International Karate Hall of Fame status, which I cannot cross check by finding any online list. A US Presidental Award, given by Preisident Groege Bush sr. in 1980. RONALD REAGAN was president in 1980 not Bush 41, I hope this is just a typo error. The award could have been given by then VP G HW Bush as sometime the VP is sent to partake in these
ceremonial events, and others the Prez does not or is unable to be bothered with.

Some do check out like his status at the WMA Hall of Fame. But has bullshido some stuff smells but not nearly as bad as Go Kan Ryu or Patenaude and the RSD.

Is it me or is TKD one of the most Bullshido infested Martial Art except Ninjitsu?

A McDojo I do remember....Keith Hafner's Karate. This guy is still in Ann Arbor and a few years ago he had these local commericals that were on cable. As all cable providers have airspace for local business. Where we had parents applauding KH and his school for instilling values and confidence in their kids and the ad ended with the kids cheering "Keith Hafner's Karate is #1!" The impression I got from this commerical is, Soccer Mom's let Keith Hafner be glorfied daycare for your latchkey kid!

I have been considering getting back into some sort of MA as a form on exercise and self defense training, once I get full time employment. I am bewildered on the level of McDojo's and Bullshido of all the schools that are out there.

**Captain Planet** · Posted On: 8/05/2007 11:13pm

Sounds like most of his credentials are bogus but im no TKD expert. If you have participated in this program maybe enlighten us on some aspects of it. Maybe a run down of how a typical class went, the payment methods, contracts,alive training etc.

PS Keith Hafner's Karate is what satan has in his style field

**GTBurns** · Posted On: 8/05/2007 11:39pm

It was several years ago, I took it as a college class so I just paid tution fees and bought my own Gi from them. Which at the time I had no problem with at the time as it made it convienent to get the proper clotihing. But grading...not looking back was was lax, we had 1st Degree Black Belts who were in their 20's.

The class was basic we came in had meditation, warm ups, forms, learned a new techinque for our belt level. 3 point Sparring, i think it was called. That was pretty much it.

There was free full contact sparring with pads when you got to the yellow belt ranks. Remember I took this as a college basic studies elective so there were no long term contracts or other mcdojoish stuff like that. There are the belt testing fees for classes that are through the UTB not as a univeristy class.

THey are also afilated with Karate for Christ, which I read another thread on that org that reeked of Bullshido and cultish christianity.

Money aside this is why I have not done any MA since I left that class years ago, I have found one crap class after another. So far the two worst offenders of Bullshido are TKD and Ninjitsu.

Rather than contacts, there is the one time 20 diollar fee for membership into the UTB, for all I know more hidden fees to follow.

**Stoked** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 7:56pm

Here in the midwest if you want to ensure you're getting some useful training for a decent price it's best to stay away from TKD schools. Straight up Karate schools that like to train kick boxers are good as well as Muay Thai schools. They typically are expensive though and have contracts. If you can find a Judo club they are usually inexpensive with no contracts and are a very useful MA. Boxing gyms with classes are great and of course MMA gyms. We have all of these things here in Tulsa and it's not a huge city.

Basically what I'm trying to say is it's hard to find a good TKD school from my experience but all those other choices are usually the opposite. There seem to be more good than bad.

**GTBurns** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 8:10pm

I'm looking for when I can afford it, some MMA gym that can teach no-nonsense self-defense system and get a good workout for my couch potato ass.

Problem with TKD is the soccer moms, they art has been watered down to pander to the soccer moms who want glorified daycare for their brats. I even see that with Keith Hafner's karate and even youth sports leagues. The first thing they spout out about is "values" and other crap the parents are supposed to be teaching them. This is why youth sports leagues and TKD are going downhill in quality. Worse with MA because so few people know what real martial arts is it is easy for the mcdojos to fool parents into thinking their craptastic style is the real deal.

If a baseball league was teaching bullshido baseball to kids parents watching the game would know.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 8/07/2007 5:01pm

Yes, Ann Arbor is the home to a prodigious amount of Bullshido. Keith Hefner's karate is a huge joke around for anyone who studies martial arts, even the other bullshidoka.
I would add to the list of BS schools:
Silat Tuo USA (I wrote an article on them a while ago)
The Kung Fu Group in Saline I trained in for a little bit (they have no organization name)
Godai Ninpo (vocal advocates of the "Too deadly for sparring" line)

I've also heard really bad things about the Quest Center. Seeing as that it's a ninjutsu school, it wouldn't surprise me. Hell, it looks like the Quest Center has class tonight. I think I'll go show up and scoop it out. They seem to be really close to my house.
We have about a million aikido, ninjutsu, and TKD schools around here. And not ONE Muay Thai, San Shou, Kyokushin, or otherwise cool striking gym. It's sad.

**Captain Planet** · Posted On: 8/07/2007 5:23pm

I've also heard really bad things about the Quest Center. Seeing as that it's a ninjutsu school, it wouldn't surprise me. Hell, it looks like the Quest Center has class tonight. I think I'll go show up and scoop it out. They seem to be really close to my house.

I would like to know how that went, a guy i met said he went there once and everyone was really into themselves and the instructors also he said they were very condescending to him. Although he was a very large and out of shape guy alot of people say that when the place/training is to hard for them. Ive never even heard of the place until he brought it up i didn't even think it existed.

**TheMightyMcClaw** · Posted On: 8/07/2007 9:35pm

Originally Posted by Captain Planet

I would like to know how that went, a guy i met said he went there once and everyone was really into themselves and the instructors also he said they were very condescending to him. Although he was a very large and out of shape guy alot of people say that when the place/training is to hard for them. Ive never even heard of the place until he brought it up i didn't even think it existed.

I've posted a seperate thread about Quest Martial Arts, so as not to derail this one.

**Brandon** · Posted On: 8/08/2007 12:19am

Originally Posted by GTBurns

A US Presidental Award, given by Preisident Groege Bush sr. in 1980. RONALD REAGAN was president in 1980 not Bush 41, I hope this is just a typo error. The award could have been given by then VP G HW Bush as sometime the VP is sent to partake in these
ceremonial events, and others the Prez does not or is unable to be bothered with.

Actually, Jimmy Carter was President in 1980. Reagan was elected that year so even recieving an award from vp Bush in '80 would have been impossible.

**GTBurns** · Posted On: 8/08/2007 12:45am

Reagan was not Prez until 1981, so the BS is even worse. IN that class we did have some good instructors in the UTB group. There was one that stood out who really wanted to challenge the students and not let them slide.

Even this class encountered Bullshido elsewhere, when I was in the class they went to a tournament that was total crap. First when they brought out the flags of the nations, they had the US Flag on a higher pole than the others. Not only angered the GM because he is from the Ukraine, but it is bad flag ediquite (sp). Then as a special guest they had "Walker Texas Ranger." Not Chuck Norris, Walker Texas Ranger....jsut some nobody dressed up as Walker.

Silat, I have seen those posters around EMU and Ann Arbor, when I took the class 7 years ago. Even today when I occasionaly visit A2, I still see those Silat posters all over the downtown area.