Is Kenpo Bullshido for street Self-Defense?

**SFC** · Posted On: 8/20/2007 9:32pm

I ended up connecting with James and plan on studying with him for a while.

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 8/20/2007 9:39pm

That guy James sounds good. Does he claim to teach Kenpo or Kempo though?
I found this site: http://www.ocjj.com/school-info/instructors/ I presume it is the same one you are viewing?

I also found him on the fight finder http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/f...ighterID=10569

You at least know he has experience both in and out of the cage. They also offer gi and no-gi BJJ at his school which is a big plus in my book.

Give it a go, and let us know how it is.

**Locu5** · Posted On: 8/21/2007 6:15am

Originally Posted by SFC

I ended up connecting with James and plan on studying with him for a while.

Good on you. Don't forget to write a Dojo Review of your new school.

**bushi_no_ki** · Posted On: 9/10/2007 11:23pm

The question is, would you knowingly put up with a mcdojo to train with a good instructor. Rhetorical question for me, I can't afford it, even though the local USSD guy is a good instructor, with a reputable school. But, his prices are regulated, and I don't have $200 a month to study. Now, compared to where I'm from, it's actually comparable, because that does include 4 private lessons a month. But, I don't have it.

**ChickenBeakFist** · Posted On: 9/11/2007 12:54pm

Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki

The question is, would you knowingly put up with a mcdojo to train with a good instructor. Rhetorical question for me, I can't afford it, even though the local USSD guy is a good instructor, with a reputable school. But, his prices are regulated, and I don't have $200 a month to study. Now, compared to where I'm from, it's actually comparable, because that does include 4 private lessons a month. But, I don't have it.

I spent the better part of my youth (early teens and again in college) hanging around "Ke?po" mcdojos and never met a school or instructor that ultimately satisfied me. My longest tenure was 5 years with a USSD school. And boy if I knew then what I know now...

Eh, I was just a kid. What can I do? Not a lot of Kyokushin Karate or MMA in the 'burbs back in the late '80s/early '90s

I ultimately gave up on it about 4 years ago for various reasons but the biggest was definitely frustration with the point sparring, compliant drills, and hilariously complicated self-defense techniques ("Fist of Destruction" anyone?)

Does this mean I think the style is worthless? Nope. Just like with all the other mcdojofied styles it is extremely difficult to separate the good stuff from the BS. Just because I had bad experiences doesn't mean you will. And all for-profit schools are going to have SOME degree of mcdojofication.

Conclusion? If you have found a kenpo/kempo instructor that you feel has a quality curriculum with a minimum of BS then hang on to him with hooks of metal my friend. Some "mcdojoness" is unavoidable. Martial artists gotta eat! Even the MMA gym I go to now has a "Little Boxers" class. It's just what you gotta do. I'm actually a little envious of you.

**senseipookie** · Posted On: 9/11/2007 1:59pm

If what he teaches is "Shaolin Kenpo Kung Fu" then I suggest you run (don't walk) away. Shaolin Kenpo is usually connected with the old Fred Villari schools - one of the Grandmasters of McDojoism. Studied under Professor Chow long enough to get some knowledge, and then "created his own style". Brought a lot of people into the MA world, but it's a world of colored satin gis with a million patches, 18 year old 7th degree black belts, and silly things like "snow leopard kicks" and "poison strikes". I even knew someone training in one of the 2nd or 3rd generation offshoots of Fred-Do saying how they taught him to use "numchucks" after about 2 months of training.

As I have mentioned before, Ke*po can be a very good style if the instructor has direct links to Tracy, Parker, Cerio, etc. Or if it is Shorinji Kenpo, which is actually an Okinawan style that is pretty hardcore. But Shaolin Kenpo ain't it. SK was one of the first "traditional" styles to sell out bigtime - even before TKD did it. Just means you have to do some homework before you jump in.

**bushi_no_ki** · Posted On: 9/12/2007 2:04pm

CBF, like I said, I wish I could afford it. It's not that the school is particularly devoid of BS, just that the sensei involved acknowledges what he teaches to beginners is BS. He says that the time to really practice MA is when the gloves go on and we can beat each other senseless. I had a good instructor, with minimal BS, but then I joined the Army, and he is now 1400 miles away. This dojo is regulated by USSD as to pricing, though, so I can't afford it.

kitterykenshin, as for the "Shaolin" Kenpo thing, yeah, I know the appropriate term is Shorinji kenpo, but sometimes you have to judge a school/sensei as an individual. For instance, the Parker/Planas lineage of EPAK has a lot less BS than some of the lineages associated with the IKKA. Hell, last I heard Prof. Planas dropped his association with WKKA because of the BS. I suppose telling a 9th degree 1st Gen. BB how to teach the style he learned from the grandmaster is not a good idea.

**Kyle359** · Posted On: 9/14/2007 1:42am

Ke*po can be either good for self-defence, or utter garbage, depending on the school and instructor. Some schools are black belt factories, others offer good self-defence. Anything that came down from Fred Villari, I'd avoid like the plague. Anything that only teaches combinations, and nothing else is also pretty useless. You're probably going to get some BS - it's inevitable these days. My old school had little to no BS, but at the same time, we averaged about 15 students. Needless to say, Soke Kwan wasn't getting rich. In order for a school to be financially able to survive these days, they pretty much have to commercialise to some degree. But you learn to separate the BS from the real thing.

**Christian_** · Posted On: 9/14/2007 8:19pm

Originally Posted by kitterykenshin

If what he teaches is "Shaolin Kenpo Kung Fu" then I suggest you run (don't walk) away. Shaolin Kenpo is usually connected with the old Fred Villari schools - one of the Grandmasters of McDojoism. Studied under Professor Chow long enough to get some knowledge, and then "created his own style". Brought a lot of people into the MA world, but it's a world of colored satin gis with a million patches, 18 year old 7th degree black belts, and silly things like "snow leopard kicks" and "poison strikes". I even knew someone training in one of the 2nd or 3rd generation offshoots of Fred-Do saying how they taught him to use "numchucks" after about 2 months of training.

As I have mentioned before, Ke*po can be a very good style if the instructor has direct links to Tracy, Parker, Cerio, etc. Or if it is Shorinji Kenpo, which is actually an Okinawan style that is pretty hardcore. But Shaolin Kenpo ain't it. SK was one of the first "traditional" styles to sell out bigtime - even before TKD did it. Just means you have to do some homework before you jump in.

I tried my hardest to warn him, but my friend went ahead anyway and started some Chinese Kenpo bullshit from a master and grandmaster, he was telling me how he just learned his "Half-Moon" stance, heheheh (Moon anyone?) Everything hes told me sounds bad...he did say that they spar three times a week and its not point sparring though, I have a hard time believing that though.