Revisiting the definition of "TMA"

[Necroth]

We need a new word, which would fix this. Isshin Ryu is famous for calling anyone who competes in the MA world a "martial sportist", thus stripping us of the phrase "martial artist" simply for competing. I propose we no longer use "TMA" to describe these people, instead finding a new way to describe them. We need to vote on a new acronym or phrase to describe these elitists who disdain any form of contact sparring, actual usefulness, etc. LARPers can easily be included in this catch-all phrase or acronym, as well.

[Cullion]

Shitty martial artists. It's really simple. These people are shitty martial artists. You can be traditional, or even a bit archaic without being shitty.

[sheltrk]

Since we're painting with broad brush strokes here, how about a general list? Here are some examples of what I think most people (in the US) are thinking of when they refer to "TMAs"
TMAs:
Karate
Kung Fu / Wushu
Taekwondo
Kempo
Judo / JJJ
Aikido / Hapkido

Non-T MAs:
Boxing
Wrestling
Kickboxing / Muay Thai
BJJ
MMA
Combatives / Krav

[Rivington]

Well, that's the problem right there, isn't it? Wrestling, which has thousands of years of history, is not traditional, and Aikido, which was founded in the lifetime of people still around today, is traditional?

[Necroth]

How about we split it into LARPing jerks, Traditional jerks, and Cockbiting Elitist jerks, with some obvious crossovers (I'm looking at you Aikido and Isshin Ryu).

[riddlekon]

My definition of a good traditionalist: Somebody who likes fighting as much as anybody practicing a modern combat sport, who happens to have trained a lot in one of the older styles and still finds a lot of value in a lot of their old style training.

My definition of a bad traditionalist: Somebody who refuses to try out a new training method, or one from another style despite all evidence that it works quite well like there's some kind of dishonour in admitting that what you already did wasn't perfect.

I think this is correct I do TSD, kendo, Kobudo, Hapkido which are all TMA's, and I also wrestle which is not .I include wrestling into tsd and hapkido and a little (very little) hapkido and TSD into wrestling. I think it should not be named for the martial art itself just the people call them GTMA and BTMA. Simple


:fist:

[Matt W.]

Well, we're left with two choices here, really, IMO. We can either try and re-educate people as to what truly constitutes a Traditional MA, and how that actually would include arts like wrestling and boxing but not TKD and Aikido, or we can try and understand what it is people most commonly mean when they say TMA which excludes wrestling and boxing but does include TKD and Aikido. Cullion's viewpoint represents the former approach. Mine represents the latter.

[Cullion]

I just find it really satifying telling people on other forums that what they're practicing isn't actually very traditional and then producing the history of their art to either show that it was either invented circa WWII or that they aren't actually practicing it in the manner which people used to 100 years ago.

[sempaiman]

As I see it, Martial Arts practiced pre-1900s was used for actual self-defense not sport. There was no belts or ranks. Skill would be determined by a challange match. You would go to learn from a guy that was a better fighter than you. So this "modern" version of Traditional Martial Arts is just a blend of modern ideas with old training ways. Hitting Makiwara instead of punching bags. Using stones and other object instead of weights for strength. Students having abnormal obedience to instructor. So, what really is "traditional", is it training in an art that has been around a long time, or using old training methods. I think at this point, "traditional" is whatever you think your interpretation is.