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  1. Adam Alexander is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 1:37am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I believe the instructor was right to be offended. I also believe you acted in an inappropriate way.

    I don't think it takes any of us a big leap of faith to know that you can only bring a student up as fast as that person can handle. Further, what you might not know is that Ann Arbor, MI isn't exactly a bastion of masculine ability. It's the liberal intellectual capital of the state. You'll find Thoreau astride more skinny sets of thighs than you'll find testosterone.

    I'm not saying the school's good, or even fair. What I'm saying is that if this guy has a couple dozen dipshits for students to keep him afloat but he's doing right by them and giving them all they can handle, wtf are you criticizing him for? Maybe if you would of been forthright he'd of invited you to the Dungeon Master training camp.

    You're f'ing with a guy's livlihood here. Seems only right you'd give him the chance to show it in the best light. It's not like he can get on here and tell you he trains ninja-wannabes who don't have a hope in hell so that he can train the ones with potential.

    To say that the instructor should of handled it differently, I believe, is accurate. However, it doesn't take into account the circumstances. I don't know about any of you, but the first time I encounter something that I have difficulty with, I typically handle it in less than stellar fashion. If someone snuck into your place of employment and took snapshots of you with your finger up your nose, with the above in mind, you might be offended that it's presented as digging for gold, when in reality you just had a fly go up there and you were freaking out.

    Maybe it's that I'm an Aikidoka and have developed a victim-mentality from all the smack we get on the net. Either way, I know one thing's for certain: You can't tell anything from watching a few classes unless you already "get it". By what was missing from the critique, I'm quite confident that the OP doesn't get it.

    Again, I'm not saying it's not bullshido, but the info isn't here to confirm it is.


    Take that bitches for my first serious post.
  2. Lujke is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 3:28am


     Style: Systema & BJJ noob,x BBT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I've understood correctly, Adam, you're basically arguing that McClaw didn't have the right to post criticism of the school on the net because:

    1) The teacher may not have a 'good' pool of students to draw from, because the locals in that area aren't very tough.

    2) McClaw didn't attend the school long enough, or have enough previous experience, to understand what he was seeing at the school.

    3) The teacher is entitled to make a living and shouldn't be subject to uninformed criticism that might hurt his business.

    The argument about the makeup of the available students in the area is unlikely and not particularly relevant. Almost any town has at least some decent potential students available, even if they are not the majority of the population. The trick is in attracting and retaining those students. In any case, even if you accept that the guy might be working with 'substandard' material, that has no bearing on what he is teaching and the methods he is using to bring them on. A good teacher will be teaching well, even if the students aren't great.

    The part about McClaw not understanding 'enough' to offer valid criticism may be true. If it is, the school owner is perfectly free to come here to explain the errors in McClaw's understanding and to make a case for the quality of his school. Generally speaking when a school is discussed on Bullshido it doesn't take long for someone to invite representatives from the school to comment. This is a genuine process and if the school can present themselves well, everyone goes their separate ways happy.

    Finally, I don't believe that anyone has a 'right' to make money by offering a service, unless that service supplies what they say it does. I agree with you that at the moment, the school in question's services are 'unproven' in terms of the information on this thread so far. But the fact the guy needs to earn a living does not make it wrong to try to check whether he is making a good job of teaching his students or not.

    McClaw - good job in my opinion. Shame how it worked out, but that's how things go sometimes. It would have been way cooler for the teacher to have responded in the manner Dsimon outlined. A shame he didn't just invite you in to show you what they are really all about, if he was confident in his art and his teaching.
  3. Adam Alexander is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 4:44am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To burden you, I put my response in color. In this way, you have greater difficulty responding. Welcome to my Aikido-Judo-chop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lujke
    If I've understood correctly, Adam, you're basically arguing that McClaw didn't have the right to post criticism of the school on the net because:

    I wouldn't say "didn't have the right", but I'd say it was in bad taste for him not to say,"Hey, I'm doing an undercover expose for Bullshido..."


    1) The teacher may not have a 'good' pool of students to draw from, because the locals in that area aren't very tough.


    2) McClaw didn't attend the school long enough, or have enough previous experience, to understand what he was seeing at the school.

    3) The teacher is entitled to make a living and shouldn't be subject to uninformed criticism that might hurt his business.

    The argument about the makeup of the available students in the area is unlikely and not particularly relevant. Almost any town has at least some decent potential students available, even if they are not the majority of the population. The trick is in attracting and retaining those students. In any case, even if you accept that the guy might be working with 'substandard' material, that has no bearing on what he is teaching and the methods he is using to bring them on. A good teacher will be teaching well, even if the students aren't great.

    Using a scale of 1-10, let's say that decent students are 5's. Ann Arbor, with a Big 10 football club, a hell of a wrestling team and one of the finest hard-style Aikido instructors (blatant plug) in the U.S. does truly have a pool to draw from. However, we're talking about Ninjutsu here. How many serious people consider Ninjutsu? The movies have beat it up so bad, this guy's lucky to have any students. For the love of God, this is kicking a guy who's down.

    Anyway, it is A2. The liklihood that a football player, wrestler or a quality Aikidoka is stopping in at the local Ninjutsu shop is slim. What's left? Ninja-wannabes? Substandard material, if that's the case, means everything. You don't send Gilligan after Ginger. You hope that he can handle Mary-Ann. You cross your fingers and give him everything you've got, but if he can't score with Mary, why would you give him the advanced course? Hell, by the sounds of it, this guy was training these gimps for Ms. Howell.

    I'm not saying Ms. Howell is a zero, but I'd rather be lonely tonight.



    The part about McClaw not understanding 'enough' to offer valid criticism may be true. If it is, the school owner is perfectly free to come here to explain the errors in McClaw's understanding and to make a case for the quality of his school.

    Yeah right. What's the guy to say? "Uh, I've got two dozen dipshits for students. When I say turtle, they say,'where?' I don't know what to do with these idiots. In my defense, they really had trouble walking at a normal pace when they came here. I've taught them to not slow down the line."

    I'm not saying the guys not a dip himself. But I'm saying, if his students are advancing good for who they are, we dont' know. The info wasn't there in the reveiw to even brush on the topic of whether these guys are advancing for their ability.


    Finally, I don't believe that anyone has a 'right' to make money by offering a service, unless that service supplies what they say it does.I agree with you that at the moment, the school in question's services are 'unproven' in terms of the information on this thread so far. But the fact the guy needs to earn a living does not make it wrong to try to check whether he is making a good job of teaching his students or not.

    No argument here. What I suspect is that the guy offers Ninjutsu lessons. If an idiot comes in and wants Ninjutsu and is of decent character, he's obligated to teach it the best he can to that student. Hell, it sounds like it's possible that he divided it up into three classes of MA rejects and one class of students with potential.

    Further, we really don't know what he was offering to who. The OP didn't say that the receptionist offered him to be a ninja in six months.

    I'm giving him the benny. Besides, I can't let you guys trash talk my school without a defense...
    One thing. I went to watch a TKD class a while back while my woman was at the fabric store. (I know, I know. Why would you rather watch TKD than your woman shop for fabric? I made the wrong choice.) Because I just wanted to watch them train instead of sign up for a free month, I wasn't "allowed" to watch the class. The Ninjutsu guy wouldn't be the first idiot I witnessed. I'm just saying the evidence isn't all there.
    Last edited by Adam Alexander; 8/10/2007 4:48am at .
  4. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 6:37am

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     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamAlexander
    I wouldn't say "didn't have the right", but I'd say it was in bad taste for him not to say,"Hey, I'm doing an undercover expose for Bullshido..."


    Umm, If you're doing an "Undercover Investigation" wouldn't announcing it pretty much nullify th Undercover part.

    How many serious people consider Ninjutsu?


    How many serious people consider any martial art is a subjective assessment, based on ones own definition of 'Serious'


    Anyway, it is A2. The liklihood that a football player, wrestler or a quality Aikidoka is stopping in at the local Ninjutsu shop is slim. What's left? Ninja-wannabes? Substandard material, if that's the case, means everything.
    Your prejudices about the art in question as it relates to athletic individuals is becoming annoyingly obvious


    You don't send Gilligan after Ginger. You hope that he can handle Mary-Ann. You cross your fingers and give him everything you've got, but if he can't score with Mary, why would you give him the advanced course? Hell, by the sounds of it, this guy was training these gimps for Ms. Howell.
    Do we really seem so thick as to require you to 'break it down' for us in Gilligans Island metaphors?

    I'm not saying Ms. Howell is a zero, but I'd rather be lonely tonight.


    I'm willing to bet that lonely nights are not an unusual occurrence for you, based on the way you choose to communicate (talk down to) others.



    Yeah right. What's the guy to say? "Uh, I've got two dozen dipshits for students. When I say turtle, they say,'where?' I don't know what to do with these idiots. In my defense, they really had trouble walking at a normal pace when they came here. I've taught them to not slow down the line."
    You seem to make a great deal of assumptions and character judgements here that weren't in evidence in the statements by the O.P.

    I'm giving him the benny. Besides, I can't let you guys trash talk my school without a defense...

    Now I think I see the motivation behind your posts....
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  5. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 7:19am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Alexander
    I

    You're f'ing with a guy's livlihood here. Seems only right you'd give him the chance to show it in the best light. It's not like he can get on here and tell you he trains ninja-wannabes who don't have a hope in hell so that he can train the ones with potential.

    Take that bitches for my first serious post.
    Repeat after me, "No one has the right to pass off shoddy goods to make a living." Now, say that until you realize that we don't give a **** about anyones livlihood. He claims to teach an effective means of self defense. We as consumers (And consumer advocates of a sort) have the right to evaluate his claims in a reasonable manner, which this was, and form a conclusion about them. MOST consumer evaluations are secret for a reason. Health inspections are supposed to be surprises, "Secret" Shoppers are supposed to be unknown to the store, and food critics don't normally tell resteraunts when they are coming to eat there. The entire point of a critical evaluation is to see something in its normal state, not to see the gussied up version that the merchant wants to trot out for that sort of thing while he continues to pass off shoddy crap to the regulars. As I see it the evaluation of this guys school stands at "Refused reasonable request to view/participate in classes." Which says bullshido to me.
  6. FictionPimp is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 7:44am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Repeat after me, "No one has the right to pass off shoddy goods to make a living." Now, say that until you realize that we don't give a **** about anyones livlihood. He claims to teach an effective means of self defense. We as consumers (And consumer advocates of a sort) have the right to evaluate his claims in a reasonable manner, which this was, and form a conclusion about them. MOST consumer evaluations are secret for a reason. Health inspections are supposed to be surprises, "Secret" Shoppers are supposed to be unknown to the store, and food critics don't normally tell resteraunts when they are coming to eat there. The entire point of a critical evaluation is to see something in its normal state, not to see the gussied up version that the merchant wants to trot out for that sort of thing while he continues to pass off shoddy crap to the regulars. As I see it the evaluation of this guys school stands at "Refused reasonable request to view/participate in classes." Which says bullshido to me.
    I agree
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  7. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 8:17am

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Clearly, the only answer is a guerrilla video cam mockumentary.
  8. Packinghouse Du is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 8:57am

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     Style: None ATM

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ginger is so not the advanced course. Anyone that can't have her 5 different ways by the time they've finished saying hello has to be dead.

    Mary-Ann is the cute girl next door, who makes you work for her goods. I can't believe you thought she would be the easy one.

    Mrs Howell, shes the target for the discerning swordsman seeking a challenge. She's old, so she's seen all your clumsy moves. She's rich, so she doesn't care about your tricked out Dodge Neon or that you wear your Hot Topic what-ever-the-**** like a moron. She's withered, so just saying "baby, I looooove your eyes" isn't going to get her moist and gaga.
  9. Captain Planet is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 8:58am

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     Style: BJJ+MT Former Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing that bothers me is if the instructor found this site and read this article why has he not responded to try and clear some things up or even invite mclaw back to one of his advanced classes. To me this is just him trying to hide how inferior his instruction/school really is. Most people who respect their own ability's in instruction and martial ability would have welcomed the challenge of a investigation but this guy turned tail and ran.

    i don't know how people like Adam Alexander could Discourage a consumer report on a place of buissness because it is "rude" that his how scam artists and basic theives get away with things.
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 11:14am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Alexander
    I believe the instructor was right to be offended. I also believe you acted in an inappropriate way.

    I don't think it takes any of us a big leap of faith to know that you can only bring a student up as fast as that person can handle. Further, what you might not know is that Ann Arbor, MI isn't exactly a bastion of masculine ability. It's the liberal intellectual capital of the state. You'll find Thoreau astride more skinny sets of thighs than you'll find testosterone.

    I'm not saying the school's good, or even fair. What I'm saying is that if this guy has a couple dozen dipshits for students to keep him afloat but he's doing right by them and giving them all they can handle, wtf are you criticizing him for? Maybe if you would of been forthright he'd of invited you to the Dungeon Master training camp.

    You're f'ing with a guy's livlihood here. Seems only right you'd give him the chance to show it in the best light. It's not like he can get on here and tell you he trains ninja-wannabes who don't have a hope in hell so that he can train the ones with potential.

    To say that the instructor should of handled it differently, I believe, is accurate. However, it doesn't take into account the circumstances. I don't know about any of you, but the first time I encounter something that I have difficulty with, I typically handle it in less than stellar fashion. If someone snuck into your place of employment and took snapshots of you with your finger up your nose, with the above in mind, you might be offended that it's presented as digging for gold, when in reality you just had a fly go up there and you were freaking out.

    Maybe it's that I'm an Aikidoka and have developed a victim-mentality from all the smack we get on the net. Either way, I know one thing's for certain: You can't tell anything from watching a few classes unless you already "get it". By what was missing from the critique, I'm quite confident that the OP doesn't get it.

    Again, I'm not saying it's not bullshido, but the info isn't here to confirm it is.


    Take that bitches for my first serious post.

    I can't even tell if you are trying to level a serious critiscism. The points you make are weak and your defense of them lies somewhere between tongue in cheek and ridiculous.

    What you may be missing here is that if I started a thread tomorrow and called someone Bullshido, I guarantee you that the moderator of this forum and at least two other members would be asking me some serious questions.

    After these questions had been asked the quality of my critiscism, the points that I take issue with would be scrutinized.

    A lot of teachers wind up in this forum who do not belong here and people say so much... emphatically. Forums that are well constructed work this way. people with some experience speak about a particular teacher and some truths emerge.


    Your problem IMO is that you are a self hating Akidoist. You feel entitled to assume that certain arts should be given a free pass to teach garbage because of the population of students they work with. Tht is very cynical and it is also bullshit. One of the most incredible things about America is that a Russian immigrant who learned the Violin in Moscow and is a virtuosa can teach students in Podunk Iowa if he so chooses to make it his home. People are not physically or mentally deficient in Michigan. A gifted teacher can apply the same standards to teaching students in Michigan as he can in Brooklyn.

    Again consumer oversight is a blight against ignorance. And if you want to stereotype and patronize a college community as not having an interest in well conducted and realistic martial arts training then you are mistaken. For example, I went to a small stoner liberal arts college in Southern Maryland (it was small at the time). Now, the interesting thing is that Southern Maryland is chock full of military people. There are two big bases in the area. I taught Okinawan karate at the time and was president of the martial arts club.... My stoner students used to be sought out because their skills were first rate. We were the best full contact karate fighters in the area, in tournaments my dead heads would often finish first second third respectively and have to fight each other. We had a great relationship with the bases because of our training. I had military guys in all our classes.

    Point being stop dictating shitty standards because of a preconceived notion you have about what type of person is capable of learning martial arts taught properly.
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