8/09/2007 4:14pm, #21
Originally Posted by Jergen"a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
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- Oct 2005
8/09/2007 4:18pm, #22
Originally Posted by FictionPimp
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- Aug 2007
- LA, CA
8/09/2007 4:32pm, #23
In which TheMightyMcClaw admits defeat
It seems, me hearties, that my paltry efforts at espionage had been outclassed.
After changing into some gi pants, I found myself sequestered into a small room front room to fill out paperwork. Waivers and such.
Eventually, the instructor (Keith) comes in. He begins by asking me about my experience with martial arts. Soon, however, he mentions that he saw my thread - Oh no! I've been cought. Essentially, he saw the fact that I was writing about his school on Bullshido, and conducting an investigation of it without informing him to be a sign of my lack of integrity. The conversation meanders a bit - I must confess, I have a tendency towards tangents- but that remains the heart of the issue. I ask him several times how he discovered this particular thread, but he refuses to say. He was not, apparently, involved in Bullshido before the post was made. Personally, I find this a bit upsetting, as it suggests that I am being stalked somehow. I would at least like to know which portion of me spreading my name all over the place lead him here.
He also informed me that had I watched other classes, I would've seen the type of hard randori I so desired to. Also, if I had from the get-go informed him that I wanted to conduct a review of his school, he would've had no problems with this. I told him that I had sent him an email several weeks ago saying exactly that, but I recieved no reply. He agreed that he recieved the email, but not that I recieved no reply. He also suggested that it was information contained in the email that lead him here - I think he said something about a handle. If it is true, and he did just google search "TheMightyMcClaw" it also would've revealed to him such terrible dark secrets as my livejournal, my profile on a dating website, and the fact that I used to post on a Dungeons and Dragons message board. Strangely, when I did a google search for my own handle (as well as my personal name, and my email address) this particular thread, however, did not come up.
As you can see, I'm a bit puzzled by this breach of my stealth. I guess they are ninjas.
Mr Copeland, if you are still reading this, please do reveal your methods. I'm ever so curious.
Also, a strange note, he invited the receptionist (the same one who got my introduction for free) to sit on this conversation. I don't know if he wanted to foster some sense of distrust of me for her, or let it serve as a reprimand for letting such a varlet as me into the building in the first place, or what.
Throughout the whole conversation, both he and I maintained polite demeanors. As I mentioned in my conversation with him, I am a rather sensitive person, and this leads me to try to avoid direct confrontation. He did at one point say that members of Bullshido seemed to be mostly rude and ignorant, and I suggested that he spend more time on the website to get a better sense of it's particular standards and crass sense of humor.
In the end, I feel a tad dissapointed in myself. Mostly, I'm reminded of that golden truth, "if you don't want people to know something, don't post it on the internet." Though, he seemed to be not upset by the fact that I had posted such material on the internet, but that I had done so without informing him. How strange.
Edit: Jergen, you wouldn't HAPPEN to be involved in this silliness, would you? I can't help but notice your timing. And why has your style changed from ToShinDo to Judo in the past thirty minutes?
Last edited by TheMightyMcClaw; 8/09/2007 4:43pm at .
8/09/2007 5:14pm, #24
Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
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- Aug 2007
- LA, CA
Last edited by Jergen; 8/09/2007 5:23pm at .
8/09/2007 6:43pm, #25Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
Firstly stop feeling sheepish. Yeah you went in to the guy's school under false pretenses and you are sensative enough to feel some shame ( I suspect) because of these pretenses good for you! now take that ethical impetus and put it somewhere else! Mightyclaw I have been teaching the martial arts for many years now... over 25 and most students go into the arts under various false pretenses. Most students claim they want to study the arts for health, or spiritual development.... what 9 times out of ten they want is to study something they have seen in a popular entertainment vehicle that looks cool to them. Some of them want to be able to fight well. Seldom do they give an honest answer when asked why they want to study an art... they give an answer they think the teacherwants to hear so they can study.
If you think this is unethical then think of this: When you want to buy a blender at Sears the electronic salesman does not ask if you plan to throw frogs in it, or to evaluate it for Consumer's digest does he? He is selling you a blender. If you go into a Yoga studio nobody asks you to take a sacred oath.... you want to study Yoga to look good? Yoga was designed to help your health and to put you on a path to egolessness, but who cares?
This teacher has no right to take the moral high ground. He teaches a class to the public. If he knew you would use the techniques to maime somebody that might be different, but barring an expressed interest in using a service, or product to harm oneself or another, you are just another student with your own reasons for studying the art. The teacher's role is to teach the art yours is to approach it as a student. Again, if you told the blender salesman you were using the blender to put your sister's hand in he might call the cops, barring that he sells you a blender.
It is a teacher's responsability to endure the critiscism and in general the learning process engendered by the student. If this teacher would just do his job the art would determine, like it has in many other situations, whether you continue or not. The teacher is trying to put the art above reproach because what? he fears an objective evaluation, or a subjective one on the part of a student? Ridiculous. Let the art speak for itself, you have no duty to let any teacher know that you plan to evaluate the art, that is the art's responsability to speak too. As a teacher if somoene comes to my training group I feel it is my responsability to give any student the part of my arts that I can teach. They can then form their own opinions about the art for whomever they care to share those opinions with. If I am capable of going hard and the student understands the risk then I can help show them how the art functions in real time... that is the only issue of understanding there should ever be concerning a student's evaluation of the art. Specifically: If you understand you might get a bloody nose and are twenty years old ( I got plenty at that age didn't kill me) then we can go real time. If you can't assume this responsability then what level do yu want me to show you?
The other issue is that yes there are a lot of idiots on this board and a lot of prejudices about the type of art instead of as should be, the type of training one does iin the art they choose. For example if I train no contact slow motion Brazilian Jiu Jutsu versus full contact karate, the type of art is secondary to the type of training when it comes to my capabilities. But there are also a lot of very sharp people on this board who are not prejudiced and in most instances the board fufills its purpose. I have noticed most dialogue takes place among people who are students of the arts and involves evaluating teachers and arts... this is a good thing because consumers of martial arts deserve the right to have this dialogue. Bottomline is that people like this teacher who fear an open discourse among martial arts consumers have something to hide and to fear, you have nothing to be ashamed of in wanting to evaluate your training with a critical eye.
I will use myself as a hypothetical to show you what I believe should have been the proper response of this teacher. Ok so you walk in to my class and I find out you are doing an evaluation for Bullshido: I would make a joke to you to make you feel at ease, probably half teasing you say something like "so you are writing us up huh"? Since I always ask students what they hope to get out of class and generally make an effort to show them those aspects of what we do in class you probably would have seen us do what you were interested in, or I would have given you a reason why we don't do certain things in our training and recommend a different training situation. I would then have taught you and encouraged you to do a good, objective write up because a good objective write up of a martial arts training situation is a service to the mrtial arts and to students who want to study the arts.
Please don't be put off by this experience. If the teacher has any confidence in his training your agenda, just like the hidden agenda of the other 10 students in the room or so, should not be a concern to the teacher. The Bujinkan has a saying that the art will weed out the people it needs to and this saying applies inthis situation. Once a teacher decides they need to know a student's agenda (assuming it is not immanent harm to self or another) to teach there art, you should be looking for a new teacher... regardless of the art.
8/09/2007 6:46pm, #26
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
He probably googled his school name this is the 3rd website on the search. So much for him being a super sleuth
8/09/2007 10:00pm, #27
Ninjers 1 TheMightyMcClaw 0
Yeah you lost to ninjers, you fail at life
Last edited by <plasma>; 8/09/2007 10:11pm at .
8/09/2007 10:09pm, #28Originally Posted by Plasma
8/09/2007 11:28pm, #29Originally Posted by Plasma
On a more serious note, thanks Dsimon. I do have a tendency to be rather, as you said, "sheepish" when it comes to these things.
One thing I forgot to mention.... I kicked myself as I was walking out the door for not getting a picture of what their price structure was like. That was one of my main goals, and I didn't get a chance to bring it up.
I also forgot to mention the poster in the dojo that advertised "have a NINJA birthday party!" While it has little to do with the quality of their martial arts instruction, I figured most members of bullshido would be amused by such a thing.
8/09/2007 11:57pm, #30Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
When you see people like Samuel Browning and Phrost it becomes apparent that this forum has a lot of credability. Smart people go through a lot of trouble to filter out people with agendas and people who just want to ridicule a style. The mods have done a great job in this respect and no legitimate teacher need fear a slander job IMO.
I just feel very strongly that if we had more students who were critical, used common sense and were willing to be smart consumers ,then martial arts instruction would be better for everybody. Teachers who love teaching, whether as a hobby or vocation also benefit from this kind of oversight.
And yeah, Ninjer birthday parties and an elaborate price structure can often be a sign of a shitty teacher and dojo. :XXjester: