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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:01pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csf1
    Right. Sifu Brown does not teach Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and does not purport to.

    His teacher has come to our dojo twice to give seminars.

    Sifu teaches grappling based on arts he's learned previously... and he understands the techniques and principles of those arts BETTER because he's studying with Shihan Dunn.
    This is what we call crappling. Taking seminars twice doesn't help you do anything but create a false grappling system that doesn't exist.
  2. csf1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:06pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    More bottom line

    This is surely going to fall in the category of "Dagon disagrees with almost everything I say." Likewise, those here who think the highest measure of a martial art is its use in the cage are going to dismiss it.

    Someone posted--I think in the first thread on the SCMA--that you're wasting your money unless you're learning the absolutely most effective techniques.

    I won't disagree with that; like I said above, Sifu Brown is teaching us real, effective martial arts. However, I'll add to it--you're still wasting your money if you're ONLY learning the absolutely most effective techniques--or any physical techniques.

    I was 30 when I walked into the SCMA for the first time. I will never in my life fight in the cage. Those few occasions where it crosses my mind, the fantasy is short-lived and ends very badly.

    For that matter, how many times am I going to have to use self-defense? I've never gotten into a bar fight; I don't routinely walk through dark alleys. Yes, violence can be sudden and random, and through my training I am better equipped to deal with it--I hope I'll never find out how well. However, I'm not going to pay $130 or even $65 a month to learn how to fight or to defend myself. The times when I'll use it are just too rare.

    On the other hand, I have to deal with attacks almost every day, from coworkers, loved ones, my own students, parents of those students, etc. They're not physical attacks; they're verbal and mental attacks. My study of kung fu has equipped me to better deal with those--not through the physical techniques but through the mental control, the attention to detail, the breathing techniques, and above all the meditation. The breathing and the meditation allow me to take control of my actions instead of just reacting. That's the only reason I pay my monthly tuition and spend so much time practicing. The martial techniques are of very limited value to me; the martial arts are of unlimited benefit.

    I didn't go to the SCMA because I was looking for religion. I'm happy in my own faith practices and they're not changing. I did start there (tai chi) because I was looking for more balance in my life, and I've found it. When I said above that I've only had positive results from my practice, this is what I meant.

    It's not a cult; Sifu Brown doesn't try to make decisions for us or change our religion. Instead, he equips us with techniques that allow us to take control for ourselves.

    I know this is a concept that is very foreign to most of the people here, and you're welcome to ridicule it. Maybe you'll be ready for the idea someday and will embrace it; maybe you won't. However, the martial arts have ALWAYS been about more than punching and kicking--15 years before I walked through the door at SCMA they were.

    Peter
  3. csf1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:08pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    This is what we call crappling. Taking seminars twice doesn't help you do anything but create a false grappling system that doesn't exist.
    Now who's not reading posts, Mr. It-Is-Fake?

    Sifu Brown has taken much more than two seminars with Shihan Dunn; he's flown out to New York for a number of weekends with him, and again, that's not what he's teaching from. He was teaching grappling years before he began training with Shihan Dunn. He's training with Shihan Dunn because he loves it and wants to get even better at it.

    Other students in the dojo and I have taken two seminars with Shihan Dunn and we're not creating any kind of grappling system.

    Peter
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:08pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csf1
    Sifu teaches grappling based on arts he's learned previously... and he understands the techniques and principles of those arts BETTER because he's studying with Shihan Dunn.
    Really?



    Originally Posted by Genghis Bob
    Knowing that Sensei Joe Hurtsellers, Hanshi Robert Bowles, Shihan Gene Dunn and Master Sonny Kim are satisfied with his credentials and his skills helps validate this feeling, but my assessment of Sifu Brown is not dependent on them.

    Originally Posted by clutch30
    I have seen him spar quite a bit and we have taken seminars from some fairly famous people that train with him (gene dunn etc.) and I just don't believe that Gene Dunn gives anybody a decent level of respect that hasn't been earned.

    Originally Posted by JustJoe
    If Master Walker, Sensei Dunn or Sensei Hurtseller want to challenge him about his credentials, at least they have the experience to back it up.

    Originally Posted by eventualartist
    If you're so interested in who Sifu Brown practices his ground fighting with, find out who Shihan Dunn is of NYC then tell me who's full of S***.



    I just want to get this clear: If I pick up the phone and call Gene, he'll vouch for Brown's grappling abilities in pretty much the same fashion implied by you, eventualartist, JustJoe, clutch30, and Genghis Bob? All of you are sure of this?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  5. csf1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:14pm

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     Style: Yuchia

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Really?


    I just want to get this clear: If I pick up the phone and call Gene, he'll vouch for Brown's grappling abilities in pretty much the same fashion implied by you, eventualartist, JustJoe, clutch30, and Genghis Bob? All of you are sure of this?
    I have met Shihan Dunn, shaken his hand, and heard him talk about Sifu Brown. I have no doubt that if you wanted to waste his time and call him up, he would vouch for Sifu Brown as a student of his and as a martial artist.

    Peter
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:18pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Now who's not reading posts, Mr. It-Is-Fake?
    You. Weekend seminars and privates does not a grappler make. He is crappling in every sense of the word.

    This is surely going to fall in the category of "Dagon disagrees with almost everything I say." Likewise, those here who think the highest measure of a martial art is its use in the cage are going to dismiss it.
    See the funny thing is all of you whined about Dagon's bias. Go look in the damn mirror and find a better argument. None of you have helped refute anything at all.

    I do a traditional TMA, as does Errant108, Dagon, dasboot, mouthboxer, Plasma, and Tom Kagan.

    So, your whole premise of "cage is the highest measure of a Martial art" is a failure.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 1:22pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csf1
    I have met Shihan Dunn, shaken his hand, and heard him talk about Sifu Brown. I have no doubt that if you wanted to waste his time and call him up, he would vouch for Sifu Brown as a student of his and as a martial artist.

    Peter

    That's not what I asked you.


    People are specficially implying Gene will vouch for Brown's grappling abilities. That has nothing to do with him being a student or what belt he may hold.


    Are you or are you not saying that Brown's grappling abilities and skills are sufficient enough to teach what he is "learning" from Gene?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  8. csf1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 2:00pm

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     Style: Yuchia

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    That's not what I asked you.


    People are specficially implying Gene will vouch for Brown's grappling abilities. That has nothing to do with him being a student or what belt he may hold.


    Are you or are you not saying that Brown's grappling abilities and skills are sufficient enough to teach what he is "learning" from Gene?
    I have said, two or three times today in this thread, that Sifu Brown has grappling experience from the past and is teaching from that. He taught grappling before he started with Shihan Dunn.

    I would not expect Shihan Dunn to say that Sifu Brown is qualified to teach what he's learning from Dunn; Sifu Brown is new to BJJ and does not purport to teach it.

    As for how Shihan Dunn would rate Sifu Brown's grappling abilities--I have no idea. First off, I would hope he WOULDN'T. I wouldn't want someone calling my teacher up and asking how good I am. Now, if Sifu Brown ever hangs out a BJJ shingle, then that's different. But even if Dunn did answer your call and give you an opinion... I have no idea what scale he'd be ranking on. Dunn teaches top-notch people. I think I'd be ecstatically happy to be one of the worst of his private students, personally.

    Peter
  9. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 2:03pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, if he's not teaching BJJ, what is the core art that he bases his grappling off of?
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2007 2:06pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by csf1
    Dunn teaches top-notch people. I think I'd be ecstatically happy to be one of the worst of his private students, personally.
    Okay, so it is your contention that because Gene has accepted Robert Brown as a private student, this means Brown must be a top-notch grappler - even if that means he's "the worst" of this group of Gene's students.

    Is that what you are saying? I want to be clear before I call Gene and ask him.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
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