Verifying BJJ Belts

[Das Moose]

Hi guys, if this is in the wrong place go ahead and move it, just seemed sensible to put it here.

I wanted to ask how exactly we go about confirming belt rankings of net users who claim rank in BJJ. The reason I'm asking is as a result of a youtube message exchange I've had which i shall reproduce here:

On the comments for The Smaching Machine part 1 on youtube:

They tried to make "Smashing Machine" all dramatic. Like whoa, the life of a fighter is so hard. Stupid.

compared to today's MMA world, this video is nothing. I like Mark Kerr but the real world of MMA is not that difficult. Kerr brought a lot of his problems on himself. I have a busy law firm, and own several business but I still find time to train and fight. And without the drama.

I would like to see Kerr do what I do and that is run a law firm, restaurant, winery and mma gym; let me tell you, it isn't easy. But I still find time to train and without the bullshit.

And yes, I do know the pressure of being a top athlete as I played college football and wrestled at the Div. I level

, if you noticed my post below you will see that I co-own a mma gym. I am a black belt in Bjj, won many tourneys as well as having an undefeated mma record

Now naturally I was a bit sceptical of this; so I msged lawyer73 saying something along the lines of (youtube doesnt save outgoing messages so this is from memory)

Hi lawyer73, I noticed you said you had a BJJ black belt and run an mma gym, whats your name, who did you get your black belt off and what gym do you run? Thanks moose

Hey Damoose,

What's it to you? Why you asking? You want to fight then come to my gym in the OC.

CB
Esq.

again paraphrased from memory; goddamn youtube

Whats it to me? You're using your claim of having a BJJ black belt and running an mma gym to support what you said about Mark Kerr. I would like to know who you got your belt off and what gym you run as this is a pretty big thing to claim.

Hey Junior,

I am at work right now so I will be quick. First, I've making no claim but stating the truth, my gym is an excellent one w/ one fighter training for the UFC in Sept, my coach was Ken Ken Gabrielson; who was the first American to be awarded a black belt under Reylson Gracie.

Now you want to come to my gym then I will make the arrangements and we'll see how tough you are, you scumbag. You don't ask the questions around here, I do.

I doubt you are on the level I am. I started training in BJJ back in 1993. How about you? That's what I thought.


CB
Esq.

So I checked this out and yes Ken Gabrielson was the first blackbelt under Relson Gracie. However lawyer73 still did not give his own name; I replied saying as much and that I found his macho posturing irritating and irrelevant to the discussion; I also mentioned that if he really is a black belt his training dwarfs my own and that's also irrelevant to the discussion.

But what occured to me is - if this guy really is a blackbelt and gives me his name, if its not on a belt list, how do we know his name just isnt on the list and he's really a legit blackbelt? Or the other way round - for example, if I came on here and claimed I was my coach who is a purple belt - you would find his name on several lists of northern ireland purple belts, but that doesn't make me him. So whats to stop this guy pulling a legit Ken Gabrielson blackbelt's name out?

How has Phrost been sorting this out? If lawyer73 is not a black belt then he shouldnt be going around claiming he is and perhaps a few choice posts on youtube should help stop him using this; if he is, his "I can beat you up" posturing is annoying but he is at least telling the truth. Help me out here guys.

---He replied just as I was about to post this so I'll just add his reply.

Just like I said, "You're a white belt." Regarding my name, since I don't know you and I have a successful law practice then I don't give out names. But tell you what, come to the OC and look up Elite Fighting Concepts. And since you're a white belt then you can mop the mats for me. You don't ask the questions, like I said. But if you want then we can set something up. I will tap you out in under 10 seconds, that I will promise you. I have to go now as I have clients waiting.

CB
Esq.

I'm really finding it hard to believe this guy now. I think he's a trying to present himself online as some well accomplished successful guy - division 1 wrestler, BJJ black belt, lawyer, runs a winery and a restaraunt - and when someone questions him on it, because he knows he can't prove it, he responds with posturing about beating me up. I googled elite fighting concepts and theres absolutely no references anywhere. Sherdog has no fighters listed as fighting under "Elite Fighting Concepts"; the closest is "Elite Fighting Systems" which is a UK MMA club, hardly OC. Thoughts?

Oh and if lawyer73 proves himself right I'll happily change my opinon of him from "full of **** dickhead" to "truthful dickhead".

[G8]

the old bjj.org site doesn't list any BBs under Gabrielson, but it wasn't comprehensive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200603191...elson-ken.html

his school was called "Combative Fighting Systems" & seems to be out of business.

I think you're talking to a 15-year-old ... maybe ask him what his legal specialty is ...

[Odacon]

He sounds like JFS

[datdamnmachine]

the old bjj.org site doesn't list any BBs under Gabrielson, but it wasn't comprehensive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200603191...elson-ken.html

his school was called "Combative Fighting Systems" & seems to be out of business.

I think you're talking to a 15-year-old ... maybe ask him what his legal specialty is ...

That's actually a good idea. That's something he shouldn't have any problem telling as it doesn't specifically identify him. Also ask him something about his Division I wrestling experience or his "winary" business. You can also check wikipedia to see if his answer is something he pulled off there in a rush.

[BSDaemon]

Old bjj.org is no good.

Searching for "Ken Gabrielson jiu jitsu" brings up this:
http://www.subfighter.com/modules.ph...howac&acid=134

Burbank is not the OC... But I gave the number a call (websites down). I spoke with Dartanian (a one stripe purple under Ken according to subfighter), who told me he didn't know about other that Ken Gabrielson black belts, but he said that Ken is a Fire Captain at the Westminster CA Fire Department, and I could call them to track him down.

Westminster CA is in Orange County. I called the fire department and he is not working today, but they told me his e-mail address:

kengabrielson at ocfa dot org

My work here is done, I'll leave it to you to contact him.

[Tomas Drgon]

What is OC? If it is Ocean City MD I should be able to check him out in early September.
:)

Tomas

[Das Moose]

Thanks BCD. Sent him the following email.

Hi Mr Gabrielson,

My name is Mark, I train at Gracie Barra Northern Ireland.

I was browsing around youtube yesterday and noticed a user called "lawyer73" insulting MMA fighter Mark Kerr's ability, and saying he had a BJJ black belt and so was qualified to say things like that.

As someone who appreciates just how hard it is to get belts in BJJ (we have an odd system where a purple belt teaches our class and black belts occasionally come over to grade and give seminars; so I should be getting my blue belt in a few days but am still a white belt) I think that anyone who claims rank in BJJ should have to prove it; particularly the highly regarded black belt.

When I pressed "lawyer73" for proof of his black belt he stated you where his coach; however he refused to give any more details of his name aside from "Chris" and several claims he makes - he says he is a lawyer and runs a law firm; he runs an MMA club called "elite fighting concepts" in OC, he runs a restaraunt and winery; he wrestled division 1 in college and played college football.

I would just like to find out if you gave a blackbelt to someone who fits that description - I feel its important to maintain the integrity of BJJ belts and people who claim to hold the belts should be challenged.

For a transcript and more detailed account of the exchange between myself and lawyer73 please have a look at http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show....php?p=1524541

Thanks very much for your time Mr Gabrielson.

Yours,
Mark

[BSDaemon]

What is OC? If it is Ocean City MD I should be able to check him out in early September.
:)

Tomas

Orange County, and bless you for being sheltered from TV culture.

Rock On Moose... :icon_thum

[GoldenJonas]

Great e-mail Moose.

I'm a lawyer with a wife and 1 child and I find it increasingly hard to train 8 hours a week of grappling (gi/no-gi BJJ).

Lawyer, winery, restaurant, AND an MMA Gym, coupled with the completely asshole attitude displayed by this guys posts = Full of ****.

[sochin101]

The guy's displaying all the hallmarks of a classic fantasist.

His indignation at being questioned by a mere white belt? Somewhat over the top.

The "you don't ask the questions, I ask the questions" strikes me as the sort of thing he's heard someone in authority use, and it's impressed him to the degree that he feels it should impress you.

I'm betting either 15 year old... possibly with a dad that's in the legal profession, or a thirty-something law school dropout (lawyer73... 1973 D.O.B?)

I'm naturally inquisitive... when I meet a fellow MAist, I ask "hey dude, how long have you been training, who have you trained with", that sort of thing and I have NEVER been met with "who the hell are you to dare question me?" face to face.

Great email, Moose... I'll watch this with interest.