Boxing using MMA gloves.

**Devil** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:39pm

Originally Posted by Goldust

The gloves that they used in the early days during the transition to the Queensbury rules were about the size of modern speed bag gloves, I think that they were 3 or 4 ounces at most.

http://www.fitzsimmons.co.nz/html/ga...ges/glove.html

If anything I think that the jab would be even more effective since with lighter gloves you would cause more damage with it. When I say jab I’m thinking more along the lines of the old Jack Dempsey, falling step, (left jolt as he calls it) not a flicking measuring rangefinder without much on it. Jim Corbett, Jim Driscoll, and Joe Gans were champions from the early days who were known for their powerful straight lefts.

I think that if you went back to the rules and conditions of the early days of Boxing you would slowly begin to see a shift in tactics as fighters would begin to fight more and more like their early counterparts as they began to re-discover the styles and techniques that were proven effective under those conditions.

Interesting points. You might be right. In actuality, I'm guessing you'd see a mix of fighting styles. Some guys would go right in dropping bombs, and some would be snipers, depending on their strengths and preferences.

As an aside - it's hard to tell from the picture, but those gloves look a hell of a lot softer than MMA gloves to me.

**Devil** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:41pm

Originally Posted by juszczec

I think lighter gloves would mean boxing would end up resembling the few clips I've seen from the bare knuckle days.

Mark

I'd say that's pretty likely. Unfortunately, I haven't really seen any clips that I can remember, so I'm having to speculate on what it would look like.

**Phrost** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:43pm

Originally Posted by M1K3

Mr/Madam Moderator

Why has this thread be moved? I am serious. I was joking around in the post but I really do think this would be an interesting thread. I had done something like this in Strikestan a while back and it got a lot of good responses. So please let me know what the issue is. I am confused.

Mike t.

Makes for an interesting discussion and a more interesting sport. This is the sport forum.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:45pm

Originally Posted by From Bell2Bell

You might be right, but it would still be indispensable for both keeping distance and getting in close (as desired) as well as for setting up harder shots. I agree that it would reduce the amount of punches that were thrown just to score points, and that alone might reduce the number of jabs thrown, but at the same time it would make them a much more potent weapon.

I think I disagree. There would still be a lot of lefts thrown but they would be more powershots than range finders. Maybe the majority wouldn't be Dempsy jolts but I think they would be more of the Foreman/Liston snap your head back type of jab. Closing the distance behind a weaker jab would just set you up for a hard right cross. Escpecially with the small glove it would be a lot harder to cover with just a raised right hand as your guard.

**kismasher** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:46pm

Jermain Taylor might actually get a KO in a title defense?

**Devil** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:51pm

Originally Posted by kismasher

Jermain Taylor might actually get a KO in a title defense?

lol. On the other end of the spectrum, could you imagine a young George Foreman or Mike Tyson in 4 oz. gloves? Fucking heads exploding and flying into the audience.

**From Bell2Bell** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:58pm

Originally Posted by M1K3

Maybe the majority wouldn't be Dempsy jolts but I think they would be more of the Foreman/Liston snap your head back type of jab.

I don't think we're disagreeing, I we're talking about the same thing using different words. What you're describing is what a good jab should be. Boxers still throw drop-step jabs and they're still powerful enough to snap your head back. I think people who don't box tend to underestimate how hard a stiff jab can be. Without gloves (or with smaller gloves) a decent boxer can hurt you with a jab, and that hasn't changed since Dempsey's day.
For what it's worth when I look at old Jack Dempsey fights I'm amazed at how far foot work has come since then. Modern boxers don't fight the way Dempsey did but IMHO that has at least as much to do with the fact that we have much more effective foot work than we then as it does the size of the gloves. With or without gloves Dempsey's foot work would get him destroyed by today's fighters. Reducing the size of the gloves isn't going to change the fact that foot work and strategy has evolved since Dempsey's day- so much so that the fights will never look the way they did then.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 3:02pm

Originally Posted by devil

lol. On the other end of the spectrum, could you imagine a young George Foreman or Mike Tyson in 4 oz. gloves? Fucking heads exploding and flying into the audience.

Part of what inspired this thread is I read on the webz and in Dempsey's book that amatuer
boxing was having a bad influence on pro boxing. Too much going for points and playing tag rather than going for power. (Kinda like what I read here about TKD). So a change in gloves would probably mean a change in style. Not that you wouldn't have good boxers, but they would still need to deliver with power to keep some like Tyson or Foreman off them. And if more boxers had a power mindset would George and Mike looked as awesome as they did against boxers with more of a point/decision background?

**Goldust** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 3:02pm

Originally Posted by devil

As an aside - it's hard to tell from the picture, but those gloves look a hell of a lot softer than MMA gloves to me.

That’s a crappy picture but it was the quickest one that I could find. I’ve seen pictures of the gloves that they used for the Corbett/Sullivan championship fight and they had almost no padding at all. The gloves in those days were padded with horse hair. Before the fight they used to “break in” the gloves which meant that one of your corner men would push as much padding to the sides as they could to better expose the knuckles.

Just as today there were a wide variety of styles in the old days and there would undoubtedly be guys today even with small (or no gloves at all) who would want to go out there swinging in order to end things as quickly as possible. Even fighting bare knuckle John L. Sullivan was known for his punching power, aggressiveness and desire to end things as quickly as possible. Even in those days I don’t think that anybody really “wanted” to be out there for 40+ rounds. It was always better to get your opponent out of there if you could rather than be fighting for one or two hours until someone finally collapsed from exhaustion and/or accumulation of damage.

I think the Boxers would also have to begin to be more concerned with accuracy and punch placement. You just can’t go out there winging with little regard for what you’re hitting with small gloves and minimal hand wraps because hitting the elbow, hip, top of the head etc. would be more likely to result in hand damage.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 3:08pm

Originally Posted by From Bell2Bell

I don't think we're disagreeing, I we're talking about the same thing using different words. What you're describing is what a good jab should be. Boxers still throw drop-step jabs and they're still powerful enough to snap your head back. I think people who don't box tend to underestimate how hard a stiff jab can be. Without gloves (or with smaller gloves) a decent boxer can hurt you with a jab, and that hasn't changed since Dempsey's day.
For what it's worth when I look at old Jack Dempsey fights I'm amazed at how far foot work has come since then. Modern boxers don't fight the way Dempsey did but IMHO that has at least as much to do with the fact that we have much more effective foot work than we then as it does the size of the gloves. With or without gloves Dempsey's foot work would get him destroyed by today's fighters. Reducing the size of the gloves isn't going to change the fact that foot work and strategy has evolved since Dempsey's day- so much so that the fights will never look the way they did then.

I wasn't really thinking old school as much as I was thinking striking in MMA as the new model. MMA striking is heavily influnced by the necessity of defending against low kicks and takedowns. So boxing with MMA style gloves would probably take on some of the appearence of modern MMA with better footwork and punching skills.

I think my biggest question is what would the inside game look like with the new gloves and how would it effect someone like a Frazier or Marciano. The chances of losing a fight on cuts would probably be a lot higher.