Ho-i Kung Fu

**lacy378** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 2:20am

This isn't the worst school I've been to, but it is darn close. The instructor teaches a five animals kung fu style and Shuai Chiao ( Chinese Wrestling). The problem is the students must obey a "no contact" sparring policy and he doesn't allow the Shuai Chiao students to throw one another. How can you learn a throwing art without throwing someone? Well, he seems to think practicing throwing kata over and over is the solution. Wrong. A blue belt in judo could take their black belts out. Avoid this school like the plague. He doesn't teach anything that is remotely affective and is mostly interested collecting your money.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 11/11/2007 4:54pm

OMG, I can't believe what I just read! I knew of guys training under this guy 15 years ago and all of them sparred full contact and used to beat the crap out of one another. They taught Shuai Jiao but their sparring had more in common with Sanda then it did Shuai Jiao.

Oh how far they have fallen in the name of the almighty dollar.

**nocoolname** · Posted On: 5/17/2008 9:42pm

These comments display an amazing ignorance of MA training in general and Ho-I in specific.

During this "no contact sparring" today, I took a club to the left wrist, a shinbone kick to the left outer thigh, and was knocked flat on my ass by a hip throw. At the time, I was defending against 2 attackers, one a black sash and one the current national champion in Shuai Chiao for his weight class. This was during the first round of attacks. We did a series of 6. Two attackers and one defender. I'm hobbling around my house looking forward to the next time...

Now, even if reality didn't contradict the misinformation by lacy378, claiming that practicing without executing has no value is just idiotic. This is the entire premise of forms (the foundation of any classical MA system).

And lastly, katas are Japanese. Shuai Chiao is Chinese. At least pick the right term for the right martial art...

shesh... what a load of bullshido...

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/17/2008 10:16pm

Originally Posted by nocoolname

Now, even if reality didn't contradict the misinformation by lacy378, claiming that practicing without executing has no value is just idiotic. This is the entire premise of forms (the foundation of any classical MA system).

No it isn't but, that is for another thread.

Do you have any video availablr of a sparring class? If so, I will see if the mods can delete this review. If it is a lie or he wasn't at the right classes this isn't right.

**nocoolname** · Posted On: 5/18/2008 6:22am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Do you have any video availablr of a sparring class?...

I've never had reason to video tape a class.

There isn't a separate "sparring" class although several students and one of the instructors have discussed having a private series for advanced students. Sparring is a regular part of instruction.

Heck, my 6 year old daughter's first class included full contact Shuai Chiao (although kid against kid is a loose "full contact"). No pads, just a mat and some basic instruction. She got put on her ass and loved it.

We don't pad up. Never had. (Although 2 or 3 weeks ago I saw some newer adult students with some shin guards on... don't really blame them though. I remember my shins being black and blue for a week when I first started blocking low kicks with my shins.) I come home with bumps and bruises regularly. Part of the training includes some iron arm and other body conditioning to alleviate that.

I don't know that this post needs deleted. Lacy378 is entitled to his/her opinion and censorship never works. I suspect that lacy378 showed up to observe 1 class, saw Master Mollica working with some beginning Shuai Chiao students or some new technique and saw him saying not to complete the throw (which IS normal until you learn some control). Then made this post.

Regardless, it's not true.

In response to the quote of mine, I don't know which you disagree with: "practicing without executing has no value", "entire premise of forms" or "foundation of any classical MA system"; however having re-read that statement, taken to far, it would be easy to tear this apart. Let me rephrase that to say.

"...claiming that practicing without executing has no value is ignorant. Forms and/or katas (as well as shadowboxing) demonstrate that there is value in this type of practice. Forms and/or katas have been an important part of most, if not all, classical MA systems."

I think this is more accurate. I hope you agree.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/18/2008 8:34am

Originally Posted by nocoolname

We don't pad up. Never had. (Although 2 or 3 weeks ago I saw some newer adult students with some shin guards on... don't really blame them though. I remember my shins being black and blue for a week when I first started blocking low kicks with my shins.) I come home with bumps and bruises regularly. Part of the training includes some iron arm and other body conditioning to alleviate that.

Well then, according to our guidelines the sparring is to high it should be a 4-5.

I don't know that this post needs deleted. Lacy378 is entitled to his/her opinion and censorship never works. I suspect that lacy378 showed up to observe 1 class, saw Master Mollica working with some beginning Shuai Chiao students or some new technique and saw him saying not to complete the throw (which IS normal until you learn some control). Then made this post.

Regardless, it's not true.

Then it is misinformed.

In response to the quote of mine, I don't know which you disagree with: "practicing without executing has no value", "entire premise of forms" or "foundation of any classical MA system"; however having re-read that statement, taken to far, it would be easy to tear this apart. Let me rephrase that to say.

"...claiming that practicing without executing has no value is ignorant. Forms and/or katas (as well as shadowboxing) demonstrate that there is value in this type of practice. Forms and/or katas have been an important part of most, if not all, classical MA systems."

I think this is more accurate. I hope you agree.

It isn't ignorant to think forms aren't necessary and you should really refrain from insults. BJJ, GJJ, Sambo, MT, Kickboxing, Judo (in some schools), wrestling, and few other styles do fine with out forms.

Shadow boxing and forms aren't the same as SB is improvisation. Most people practice forms in a preset sequence that doesn't change.

**nocoolname** · Posted On: 5/19/2008 5:02am

Originally Posted by It is Fake

It isn't ignorant to think forms aren't necessary...

Just for clarification, I didn't say forms are necessary. I also didn't say it's ignorant to think forms aren't necessary.

I did say it is ignorant to say forms have no value (which was the initial impression created by lacy378).

I understand (and respect) various MA which have no fixed forms. I have the same respect for various MA with forms.

And ignorant means "lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned"; I softened this from idiotic which was insulting.

I stand by my opinion that dismissing a school because "practicing throwing kata over and over is the solution..." (quote lacy378) is lacking in knowledge (ignorant).

Additionally I will reduce my sparring rating of the school to off set lacy378, it make an average of 4-5.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/19/2008 5:07am

^^Thanks for the clarification.

The thing is, you were responding to me so, the context was directed at me IMO.

**nocoolname** · Posted On: 5/19/2008 5:12am

My apologies. All my quotes were from and directed to the original review of the school by lacy378 which was inaccurate and untrue.

Additionally, Ho-I teaches more than five animals and Shuai Chiao (but I didn't bother addressing that.)

The price per month is $90 (for adult classes) which is 2 classes per week (about $11 a class over a year).

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 5/19/2008 9:04am

nocoolname,

Did you read the "rating stickie" and watch the "Aliveness stickie" videos?

Do your sparring sessions look like a Dog Brothers get together? If so, then by all means enjoy the 10, if not, pls revise accordingly.

Further, do you guys regularly compete in national or local grappling competitions (Mundials, Pan Ams, Grapplers Quest, NAGA, Copa's, etc, etc) and if so, how do you do. Also, is your grappling instruction limited to throwing or do you have a ground aspect that is covered in detail? Technically, how do the throws you are taught match up against the Kodokan syllabus? Have you guy competed in any Judo comps to test out your actual throwing competency? My point is I SERIOUSLY doubt your grappling instruction is a 10.

Lastly, striking of a 9 is indicative of a very high level of technical detail and instruction on striking that would enable the students to compete in some amateur kickboxing, muay thai, or boxing competitions; is the striking on par with this?

Lastly, thanks for posting your comments, however, could you put together one comprehensive review rather than posting piecemeal by answering questions.

Thanks
GJ