A question to you all (particularly Torontonians)

**gallantknight** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 12:29am

Hello, you might remember me from a topic not too long ago concerning me trying to find a Martial Arts school.

Anyways, I've been looking around... following suggestions from lots of websites (including this one), and I've found a lot of Martial Arts schools. The one I'm most keen on won't allow me to go check it out til September... so in the meantime, I've found another.

Does anyone know about Chung Wah Kung Fu Center?

I'm just wondering if there are any people who have had experience at that school that might be able to tell me more. My main reasons for wanting to learn CMA(s) include heritage and culture, stress reliever, self-improvement, and most importantly, self-defence. Does Chung Wah mix with what I need? I've already done a trial class... I didn't particularly detest it, but all we really did was some basics I've seen already from doing other CMA.

Here's the site for anyone else who might be able to help me with the credibility of this school. I liked it... but well, I dunno what'll be like in the future. Can anyone help?

Of course, help is always appreciated. Thank you very much in advance for your assistance!

PS - To anyone who goes to, has gone to, or has had experience with the Bajimen School (http://www.bajimen.com/index.php?page=home) Can anyone give me a heads up for this school?

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 3:41pm

I am a student of Baji Quan, Huo Lineage. I really enjoy the system and if your into CMA I would highly recommend it. My Shifu was a student of Huo Qing Yun, who was a student of Huo Dian Ge, who was a student of Li Shu Wen.

I actually have a book written by my Shifu that has a lineage chart showing all of the lineage holders up 1994. Liu Yun Qiao is on the list. Who is teaching the system at the school in Canada and which Baji system is it? I know of Wu style(Wu Lian Zhi) and LuoTan style, Huo style is kind of rare even in China and as far as my Shifu knows there are no other Huo style teachers on the North American continent, so I doubt they are teaching Huo. Wu style is by and large the most widespread. If he is teaching Liu Yun Qiao's version of Baji then it is also probably somewhat rare.

I will ask my Shifu about Liu Yun Qiao when I see him this week and get his opinion of the man's Baji system. They listed the Baji curriculum on the website and by comparison it seemed very light to me.

Huo style curriculum has the following;

4 training sets ( two of which are listed on the website )
3 forms (two of which are listed on the website )
1 two man set ( not listed )
5 weapons forms ( not listed )

It is good to see that they also teach Pigua Zhang, it is generally taught alongside Baji. If they spar I would definitely look more into that school if you want to train CMA.

**gallantknight** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 3:46pm

Excuse my curiousity, but who is your sifu? And are you situated in China?

He wouldn't happen to be Mr. Zhou, would he? That's where I got my inspiration to learn Bajiquan from, along with seeing LordAsia sparring someone on youtube. =D

By Mr. Zhou, I mean this guy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ETiQZzw6w

And by LordAsia, I mean this guy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_642acVEa1E

It's nice to have another Baji enthuiast around... I dunno, they sorta seem rare around here, at least in Canada. Maybe they're hidden, hehe...

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 8:41pm

Both great vids! I believe Lord Asia trained his Baji in Japan, probably the Wu system, but I am just guessing. Hopefully if someone speaks his name one more time into the monitor he'll appear and tell us what system himself and tell us what system he studied.

Lord Asia, Lord Asia, Lord Asia (Puts in mouth piece and waits for fist to come through the screen)

My Shifu is An Tian Rong. I am located in Ohio. If you find that you're going to be in the area let me know. Shifu An is pretty open to teaching privates or allowing visitors to join a class for the day and his private and day rates are quite reasonable.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 8/08/2007 9:48pm

I asked my Shifu about Liu Yun Qiao today. He had nothing good to say about his Baji. He referred to Liu Yun Qiao's Baji as Taiwan Baji, and since he is from mainland China he is going to have a natural bias against anything coming out of Taiwan.

Their is an instructor in Ohio by the name of Tony Yang who was also a student of Liu Yun Qiao, much of his Baji curriculum is also very thin in comparison to what I am being taught. In addition my Baji training partner has seen some of Shifu Yang's students performing Baji in competition and referred to it as "Old Man Baji". He described it as many of the movements lacking power and being overly compact, to the point of useless. My instructor explained that when Tony Yang actually trained with Liu Yun Qiao , Qiao was quite old and arthritic and was not able to demonstrate the postures properly with full extension and power, so Shifu Yang teaches the techniques in the same manner that he learned them, without extension or power.

Of course all of that could just be BS gossip and politics. Go check out a class and get vid if you can, after I see it I would be better equipped to give an evaluation of what they are teaching.

**gallantknight** · Posted On: 8/09/2007 3:30pm

Hmm... I see, thank you for the heads up, Ronin.

I've done a bit of additional research on the matter since you brought up these interesting points. Apparently,
Liu Yun Qiao was the last 'indoor' disciple of Li Shu Wen, and he too garnered some of his own fame traveling with him. However, your sifu apparently studied under someone who studied under the first disciple of Li. That's really cool! I'll try to find out the name of my possible future sifu for you, but I do know that it's not Tony Yang.

Also, I lack the apparatus to take videos at the moment and I doubt that will change within three weeks. However, I've had experience in other martial arts, so I will try my best to 'feel' if it's right for me or not and look for any inconsistencies. I've been looking over several videos of Baji on the net, too. While I know that's not really a good method for learning anything, I do feel that I've watched enough to know at least a small amount of the externalities of Bajiquan.

I'll get back to you as soon as I can concerning this Baji school. ^_^ The problem is that there are only... two schools or so in my area that teach Bajiquan! Haha, so it's hard to find, let alone find a good teacher. I hope he's alright...

EDIT: Upon more searching around, I discovered the name! James Guo.

Another edit... I found a little blurb about the school in a search for his name, and my interest in his school has risen dramatically.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...p/t-38183.html

A) he doesn't charge money (commercial interest and the like... there's no money exchange involved, no contracts)

B) He decides what we should learn

C) Focus is not in forms

D) sparring!

YES!

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 8/09/2007 5:30pm

If all of the above is true, it would definitely be worth checking out. The only thing may be the "He decides what we should learn" portion. This could mean he decides which system is best suited to your body type. If you are short and stocky then Baji is for you, if your tall and long he would probably teach you Pigua Zhang. It doesn't mean you can't learn the other system it's just that you would probably start with the one better suited to your body type first.

Post an update after you check it out. Get some vid as soon as you get a chance.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 8/09/2007 9:31pm

Two things to notice:
1) The guy posting says they do a lot of Mantis.
2) The thread is almost 2 years old things may have changed,

Good Luck.

**gallantknight** · Posted On: 8/10/2007 7:02am

Well, that's true too, I guess. I guess I can't walk in there with too much confidence that everything said in that topic will remain the same.

**Aiyaaa** · Posted On: 5/28/2011 8:35pm

Originally Posted by Ronin.74

I asked my Shifu about Liu Yun Qiao today. He had nothing good to say about his Baji. He referred to Liu Yun Qiao's Baji as Taiwan Baji, and since he is from mainland China he is going to have a natural bias against anything coming out of Taiwan.

Their is an instructor in Ohio by the name of Tony Yang who was also a student of Liu Yun Qiao, much of his Baji curriculum is also very thin in comparison to what I am being taught. In addition my Baji training partner has seen some of Shifu Yang's students performing Baji in competition and referred to it as "Old Man Baji". He described it as many of the movements lacking power and being overly compact, to the point of useless. My instructor explained that when Tony Yang actually trained with Liu Yun Qiao , Qiao was quite old and arthritic and was not able to demonstrate the postures properly with full extension and power, so Shifu Yang teaches the techniques in the same manner that he learned them, without extension or power.

Of course all of that could just be BS gossip and politics. Go check out a class and get vid if you can, after I see it I would be better equipped to give an evaluation of what they are teaching.

Its not politics. We all know the issue(s) with taiwan and taiwanese. Its like the bandaid on the face. Those that know what it means, know what it means. These guys are not yellow brained. They are not real china men. They believe in western superiority and are open to transmiting their ideas to gwailos.

First of all, no one even heard of these guys until Liu Yun Qiao died and they launched their marketing campaign. Use the internet archives and look at how "old" these pages up on baji were. Do the math.

Even if they were able to train people that were actually good and could fight and make money doing it. They would still owe their livelyhoods to a video game.

Check out the archives on usenet for the first attemps to market baji. Dodging bullets? Seriously. CNCKI was behind some of this marketing hype too. Time for a roger hagood thread.

Taiwanese are funny. They are actually offended if you call them chinese. We are laughing at you because your not white.

Engineers? What have you engineered?

Realistic weapons fighting? Tag with giant poles. Excuse me while I catch my breath.

Piguaquan is tongbei. More auxillary training. The fact out of context is that bodyguards who did mongolian or chinese wrestling and bagua and a whole lot of other stuff just happened to cross-train in baji's auxillary training doesnt change the fact that no one is abandoning real training for some silly kinematic theorys extrapolated to traditional stilted postures strung together to look like a form.