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  1. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 1:16pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Heffy
    Well forget him. I could beat his ass with a plate of donuts and a large coke.
    I would pay to see that.
  2. curveros is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 1:16pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. Heffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 1:55pm


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was funny as hell.
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 3:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find this discussion between Heffy and SFGOON rather entertaining.

    A question if I will, first to Heffy. I understand what you mean as far as focus of training, but wouldn't you agree that you just stated that fighting techniques are reserved for BJJ and MT that work on 1 on 1 fights, but somehow Systema skips that and gets right to overcoming multiple opponents and weapons?? Does that make sense to you?

    SFGOON, do you feel that the stuff in that initial video was practical time spent training in the least?
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 3:34pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Thus spake the TKD guy. Fucking marvelous. See what you did heffer?
    Hells yeah! TKD takes you to a place where hot flexible girls throw their legs up in the air. Beats the **** out of Systema....
    Last edited by Kintanon; 8/10/2007 3:36pm at .
  6. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 4:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Hells yeah! TKD takes you to a place where hot flexible girls throw their legs up in the air. Beats the **** out of Systema....
    BJJ puts those hot girls legs around your head :)
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  7. Heffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 4:57pm


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have you ever studied/practiced stacking in Muay Thai or BJJ?

    Have you ever been in a BJJ class where the instructor gets you to roll with someone, and then has two other students try and kick you or knife you?
    Have you ever tried to use a Thai round kick when three people are trying to sorround you?

    The concepts used for 1 on 1 fighting are very different than fighting multiple opponents. I'm not saying Muay Thai or BJJ won't work against multiple opponents. I'm saying that's not the focus of these arts. BJJ is primarily about getting position on the ground so you can do a submission/pound the fucker. MT is primarily about throwing the hardest shots possible while standing.
    That's a big part of why people cross train them. MT is not much good if you get knocked down, BJJ is not much good if a bunch of thugs attack you and all you know how to do is wrestle.
    Systema is a whole different can of worms.
    Frankly, doing drills with multiple opponents is without a doubt a better way to prepare for a multiple opponent encounter, than training in an art that focuses on fighting one person at a time. There are many nifty things you could learn in Systema, that you might not know/appreciate otherwise.

    In short, yes, I think training with multiple opponents, and weapons better prepares you for multiple opponents and weapons. Training to submit/smash people better prepares you to submit/smash people.
    I don't see why you think MT or BJJ is some kind of....pre-requisite for being able to actually fight. I've known some Systema people that hit each other really fucking hard.
    I also don't see why you seem to think not drilling certain scenarios will prepare you for them.

    Some people have this thing where they think Striking>Everything It's not true.

    It's all about balance.
    I spar with a Krav Maga/Boxer who has sixty pounds on me. The last time we sparred (boxing) he never landed a square shot on me. Why not? He punches too hard, because he doesn't train sensitivity.
    Like I always say, I'd rather hit someone with a weak punch than miss them with a strong one.
  8. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 5:14pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Heffy
    Have you ever studied/practiced stacking in Muay Thai or BJJ?
    Stacking?
    I'm not sure about muay thai, but I know that I use stacking as a triangle counter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7ZesgnYsos
  9. Heffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 5:17pm


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's not the kind of stacking I meant. I guess that answers my question though.
  10. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 6:57pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    SFGOON, do you feel that the stuff in that initial video was practical time spent training in the least?
    Yes I do, and please understand as we get into this that I have a very different idea of what it means to be in shape than you likely do. I'll try to explain, what it boils down to is posture and tension control as opposed to muscle strength and body composition. (I still think hematocrit and stroke volume are t3h p0rk, though.)

    Most people are already as strong as they need to be, they just can't access that strength. As I see it from my experiences with other cultures and as a former personal trainer, westerners breathe strangely, walk and stand funny, carry odd tension in their bodies and fall back on a tense state under duress. All of these traits stand in the way of maximum human performance - either the recruitment patterns are bad, or the tension reflex stymies relaxed, fluid movement. Making things worse, the tension not only slows you down, but it exhausts the fighter prematurely as the body fights its own movement, akin to driving your car with the parking brake on. These are called inhibitory reflexes and are largely psychosomatic.

    If the above is true then disinhibition of such reflexes would be of tremendous value to any fighter or athlete. Your body would stop "putting on the brakes" when you need it to perform at it's best. The result would be faster, more efficient movement. Much of what is seen in youtube systema videos are drills for beginners that are intended to have these results. Since they're combat specific, it just looks like bad RBSD. If you're able to master tension control you'll be more effective in any sport.

    Sorry for the soliloquy.
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