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  1. jkdbuck76 is offline
    jkdbuck76's Avatar

    Here, hold these for me.

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 11:15am

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    Systema = Russian Kuk Sool.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. Itís the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  2. systemavin is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 7:22am


     Style: Systema/ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Relaxation of the shoulder and letting the arm move naturally (slight bend in the arm, at the elbow) can just be as important, and just as devastating. I hope this of use to you.

    vin
  3. Don Gwinn is offline
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 7:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just remember:

    1 That is not the r34l Systema.

    2. That is not the r34l Ryabko.

    3. Ryabko does not have the r34l Systema.

    4. You've never seen the r34l Systema, and now that they've seen how cynical and judgmental you are, you never will. Please focus on growing as a person and a martial artist.

    5. That video camera only attended one Systema video, and I heard it had zero martial arts experience. YOu can't expect a video camera to show the true Systema without the knowledge and experience to interpret what it is recording properly.

    Now don't you all feel stupid?
    *********************************************
  4. Nickeroon1987 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 8:30am


     Style: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear1980
    Ive always beleived that a good punch comes from a solid connection with the ground.
    So your Hip & Elbow connection play a big part in power generation. These guys all seem to punch with their elbows way out almost horizontal to their shoulders?

    Surely you cant generate a good strike like this!!
    My friend does some Systema. Basically, when he does this punch, he's throwing the weight of his arm into the punch as well by relaxing his arm. It's pretty nifty, but I don't think it'd be good in a ring fight. Maybe used as a surprise or a sucker punch?
  5. Heffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 10:02am


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Systema is one of those things that has a lot of useful stuff in it, but is easy for people to just overlook. It isn't something I would do exclusively, but I can appreciate what they do. The systema people that share our space with us seem better prepared than most.
  6. RobG is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 10:37am


     Style: casual

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know that not every Systema person is as prepared as stated..no more than any percentage of any martial study is really prepared.
    The difference - to me - is that a student can go to study for whatever they wish - Vlad and Misha are pretty damn selective about who they allow to pass on Systema openly.
    \
    Still, in seminars - or sessions - you can easily find those as frickin non-connecting to the usefull-ness of this method - like I have seen in many previous methods studied - all the wanna be people. In Systema - we call them the 't-shirt collectors'...the one's that show up the t-shirts for various methods -even our method - but can not do even decent basics.

    I have never been a BJJ-er - but have learned from those that grace the Gracies - I learned how to get a few things like a fairly decent cross choke and arm bar and triangle and a better understanding of mount and reverse - but in that art - I am a dabbler. I am more a striker than a grappler.

    IF you go to a good MT or MMA or BJJ school - you will find the collectors there too.

    It is not the art that makes the person...the martial artist.

    IT IS the depth of effort they put into it...and now, after preaching to the choir - I am out, for now.
    Last edited by RobG; 8/10/2007 10:40am at .
  7. SFGOON is offline
    SFGOON's Avatar

    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 10:38am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    Just remember:

    1 That is not the r34l Systema.

    2. That is not the r34l Ryabko.

    3. Ryabko does not have the r34l Systema.

    4. You've never seen the r34l Systema, and now that they've seen how cynical and judgmental you are, you never will. Please focus on growing as a person and a martial artist.

    5. That video camera only attended one Systema video, and I heard it had zero martial arts experience. YOu can't expect a video camera to show the true Systema without the knowledge and experience to interpret what it is recording properly.

    Now don't you all feel stupid?
    Soon I will post a video of myself crying, rambling and ranting to the following effect:

    d0n gw1nn, u = t3h int3rw3bz #1 m34ny!!!!
  8. SFGOON is offline
    SFGOON's Avatar

    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 10:51am


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RobG
    I know that not every Systema person is as prepared as stated..no more than any percentage of any martial study is really prepared.
    The difference - to me - is that a student can go to study for whatever they wish - Vald and Misha are pretty damn selective about who they allow to pass on Systema openly.
    \
    Still, in seminars - or sessions - you can easily find those as frickin non-connecting to the usefull-ness of this method - like I have seen in many previous methods studied - all the wanna be people. In Systema - we call them the 't-shirt collectors'...the one's that show up the t-shirts for various methods -even our method - but can not do even decent basics.

    I have never been a BJJ-er - but have learned from those that grace the Gracies - I learned how to get a few things like a fairly decent cross lapel choke and armbar and triangle and a better understanding of mount and reverse - but in this art - I am a dabbler. I am more a striker than a grappler.

    IF you go to a good MT or MMA or BJJ school - you will find the collectors there too.

    It is not the art that makes the person...the martial artist.

    IT IS the depth of effort they put into it...and now, after preaching to the choir - I am out, for now.
    Seriously dude, BJJ with the systema will make you into one bad mofo - roll more.

    As for the T-shirt collectors, that happens with every martial art. They don't last - I've come out of every systema class I've ever taken shaking, sweaty, and usually a little scared.
  9. Aleem is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 11:11am


     Style: Ex-wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RobG
    I know that not every Systema person is as prepared as stated..no more than any percentage of any martial study is really prepared.
    The difference - to me - is that a student can go to study for whatever they wish - Vlad and Misha are pretty damn selective about who they allow to pass on Systema openly.
    \
    Still, in seminars - or sessions - you can easily find those as frickin non-connecting to the usefull-ness of this method - like I have seen in many previous methods studied - all the wanna be people. In Systema - we call them the 't-shirt collectors'...the one's that show up the t-shirts for various methods -even our method - but can not do even decent basics.

    I have never been a BJJ-er - but have learned from those that grace the Gracies - I learned how to get a few things like a fairly decent cross choke and arm bar and triangle and a better understanding of mount and reverse - but in that art - I am a dabbler. I am more a striker than a grappler.

    IF you go to a good MT or MMA or BJJ school - you will find the collectors there too.

    It is not the art that makes the person...the martial artist.

    IT IS the depth of effort they put into it...and now, after preaching to the choir - I am out, for now.
    I'd say that boxing, MT, BJJ has a higher percentage of "prepared" martial artists than many other arts. Also, why are Vlad and Mischa so selective about who they pass Systema on to? Aren't they charging everyone for what they teach them, or claim to be? Rob, do you mean that they are selective about whom to teach Systema, or whom they allow to teach Systema? Or even, how much of Systema they reveal to different students?

    I think it was Systemavin (or someone else on here) who said a few days ago that many people "don't get" Systema, and that's why there are incompetent people out there. Would you agree with this? I don't. In fact, if a greater amount of people fail to "get" Systema I'd say that this shows it to be a less effecient/effective system as it requires more application to achieve the same results.

    As for your claim that we will find MT, boxing etc. collectors I doubt there are nearly as many there as there are in arts like the countless WingChun schools out there. This is because boxing, MT, BJJ gyms train hard, and if people don't get it / like it, they leave. They don't or can't pretend to be improving because the training is gruelling. T-shirt collectors thrive in non-contact schools which fail to test their aerobic and anaerobic capacities, and their ability to deal with aliveness. This is mainly because they can get away with being crap, as they'll never be tested adequately e.g. by someone actually trying to hit them.
  10. Heffy is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/10/2007 11:25am


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think he means they are selective about who they choose to be instructors.

    I think it is true that many people "don't get systema". I find there is a really strong leaning towards MT BJJ and Boxing, especially on this forum. This is fine, they are all good arts, and work well in conjunction with each other.

    However to say that systema "requires more application to achieve the same results." Is completely untrue. Systema is not in any way going to give you the same results as cross training BJJ/MT/Boxing. I've never learned any knife or gun techniques from MT/BJJ/Boxing, or done any significant amount of sensitivity training. I've also never seen MT/BJJ/Boxing classes where they practiced multiple opponent situations, or evading random kicks and stomps when you are on the ground trying to get up.

    I mean systema might take longer to make practical, because the techniques are more geared towards fluidity of motion, and sensitivity, but it certainly isn't comparable. A person who has done systema, has a totally different skill set from someone who trains BJJ/MT/Boxing.
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