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  1. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2011 11:36am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobbs001 View Post
    I was pissed when HW said a knee strike was a strike to the knee.
    watch?v=7iO3SFEdV8I
    Really? You were pissed about that?
  2. Cobbs001 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/31/2011 1:02pm


     Style: Koei Kan Karatedo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like throwing knees and when they said knee strikes and showed the 3d mopdel actually hitting the knee of the other 3d dummy I was thinking fail, but HW always messes something up.
  3. Cold_Skin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2011 7:56pm


     Style: Okinawan Go Ju Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just creeped on this whole thread to see what everyone thought. I loved the episode, as a Goju Ryu Karateka myself of course I would though. As for the Kyusho portion of it, it wasn't as Bullshido as most think. Sensei Higaonna didn't show anyone anything that magically knock anyone out cold, just pressure points that caused immense pain that have been used on me during training. They are NOT fun to have them performed on you. And the punch to the chest and stopping the heart is a real thing that has been proven with science in the past. I think the main problem is Kyusho is a principle, not an art it's self. Too many people teach it as a stand alone art and make up Bullshit like finger lock KO's and the infamous "No Touch KO". All Kyusho does is teach the human bodies weakest points and where to strike/bar/lock/pinch/ect. for a tiny edge in combat, nothing else really.

    With the kumite, people need to realize things like that happen all the time. People get kicked in the nuts, and belted in the face and judges normally only call it if it seems like it was done on purpose. And the karateka took Duff's punch to the chops like a boss, so it's not like the guy was a *****. And the Hojo Undo (conditioning) is amazing. Yeah, you lift weights for size and strength, but the tools and exercises done in Hojo Undo develop certain muscles. I was on a Varsity football team, and I was never taught an exercise that built up strength in your wrists. Plus bench press doesn't help with control when punching, Hojo Undo has that too. After doing both, I'd say practice Weight Lifting and Traditional Hojo Undo for an overall edge.

    Another thing is that training for competition and practicality are to different worlds. I started training when I was 6 cause I was jumped and wanted to learn to defend myself. By the time I earned my green belt I noticed the students higher ranked than me actually fought differently. When we would spar in class you had competitors and you had fighters. My Sensei was a competitor, and a great one at that. My Senpai was a fighter, and you could easily tell. The difference was watching my Sensei, you saw she went for the point, and my Senpai. Was that my Senpai put people down and didn't mess around with pretty kicks to the head. He has grabbed peoples Gi's and punched them dead in the stomach during sparring before. Your path in training is up to the person training, you can be good at both, but not great at both.

    Those are just some of my thoughts.

    -Jesse
  4. Lindz is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2011 10:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Skin View Post
    I just creeped on this whole thread to see what everyone thought. I loved the episode, as a Goju Ryu Karateka myself of course I would though. As for the Kyusho portion of it, it wasn't as Bullshido as most think. Sensei Higaonna didn't show anyone anything that magically knock anyone out cold, just pressure points that caused immense pain that have been used on me during training. They are NOT fun to have them performed on you. And the punch to the chest and stopping the heart is a real thing that has been proven with science in the past.
    I'm tired and can't concentrate so I'm just gonna jump on the first dumb thing I saw. Where's the science please?
  5. jdempsey is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2011 11:17pm


     Style: lazy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me get this straight. You are saying that great competitors cant be great fighters? Naaah surely not...:DudeComeOn:
  6. Cold_Skin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2011 5:48am


     Style: Okinawan Go Ju Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @jdempsey I've seen my share of fighters, and honestly I've seen guys rip people to **** in a competition, but got there ass handed to them in a real fight and vise versa. It's more so a thing that people get used to how they trained. I fought a boxer that was so used to just training in the ring that for some reason the only thing he knew what to use was his hands and neglected defense against a kick to the stomach. People who over compete tend to forget that in a real fight, there are no rules. Ergo, why a lot of karateka suck in a real fight.

    @Lindz Have you never watched medical shows before? A boy once died during a baseball game because a baseball flew straight into his chest around his heart with so much force it caused cardiac arrest. The human heart works through "beats", that 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2, feeling you get is your pulse (duh, common sense). People suffer from heart attacks when something causes the heart to act "off beat" and their heart will then stop. If you strike the heart with just enough force it can cause blood to temporarily stop flowing into the heart and cause a heart attack.
  7. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2011 6:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Skin View Post
    @Lindz Have you never watched medical shows before? A boy once died during a baseball game because a baseball flew straight into his chest around his heart with so much force it caused cardiac arrest. The human heart works through "beats", that 1-2 1-2 1-2 1-2, feeling you get is your pulse (duh, common sense). People suffer from heart attacks when something causes the heart to act "off beat" and their heart will then stop. If you strike the heart with just enough force it can cause blood to temporarily stop flowing into the heart and cause a heart attack.
    Deliberately inducing commotio cordis would require that you time a 10-30 millisecond window in the cardiac cycle and even then it's not particularly likely. So no, it's not a viable high percentage fighting technique.

    P.S. It also seems to overwhelmingly happen to 14-15 year olds, for some reason, so unless you're planning on killing a lot of them it's even more unlikely. I also can't find any record of it ever happening during a boxing match, so it seems that doing it with a punch is tricky at the very least.
    Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 9/09/2011 6:06am at .
  8. NeilG is online now
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2011 10:18am


     Style: Kendo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That heart attack thing has also happened in hockey a few times. If you can deliver as much focused force as a slapshot or a line drive with a punch, I will buy you a cee-gar.
  9. Cold_Skin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2011 11:50am


     Style: Okinawan Go Ju Ryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But the fact of the matter is it is possible, that's what I was trying to say. I'm not gonna try and hammerfist someone in the god damned chest to stop their heart during a fight. I said that I believed Kyusho to be more of a principle than an art. It's just a tiny little edge you get from knowing the bodies vulnerable points that you can add to your striking or grappling. Just like Aikido, is it gonna work on its own, VERY debatable. Will it give you an edge if you use some of it's techniques with already established striking and grappling experience, Yes. I said this in my original post. People talk about the move being bullshit and 100% impossible, when it's not. It is possible to stop someones heart with a strike, is it probable to happen each time you do it, **** no. The chances of it happening are the same as the chances of killing a man with a punch to the nose so hard you give the poor guy an aneurysm or something.
  10. jdempsey is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2011 3:51pm


     Style: lazy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Skin View Post
    I fought a boxer that was so used to just training in the ring that for some reason the only thing he knew what to use was his hands and neglected defense against a kick to the stomach. Ergo, why a lot of karateka suck in a real fight.
    :Suspicious:
    Did you actually fight this boxer? Was he a boxer/fighter or a boxerciser? And did he care about about your kicks to the stomach?

    OH! you're speaking from a karate viewpoint! Its all making sense now.
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