TKD that teaches okinawan/jap forms?

**kajunboy89** · Posted On: 8/04/2007 9:09pm

I recently went watch a "TKD" class that my friend is in. When i walked in I was confused with their short cut gi that they all wore. I sat down and watched for a bit, then realized that all of the commands were in Japanese! All of their forms are Japanese! I talked to the sensei after class and he told me that their art was authenticly Korean. He told me about his master who was a 9th dan and their grandmaster was a 7th dan. I thought that you couldnt get a higher rank than your instructor? I'm somewhat new to the arts and my friend and my parents are pushing me to go here, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THIS SEEMS LIKE A MCDOJO!

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 8/04/2007 9:44pm

Originally Posted by kajunboy89

I recently went watch a "TKD" class that my friend is in. When i walked in I was confused with their short cut gi that they all wore. I sat down and watched for a bit, then realized that all of the commands were in Japanese! All of their forms are Japanese! I talked to the sensei after class and he told me that their art was authenticly Korean. He told me about his master who was a 9th dan and their grandmaster was a 7th dan. I thought that you couldnt get a higher rank than your instructor? I'm somewhat new to the arts and my friend and my parents are pushing me to go here, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THIS SEEMS LIKE A MCDOJO!

Well firstly, TKD, TSD, and other mainstream Korean martial arts were started from Okinawan/Japanese karate. Japan occupied Korea from around 1909-1945, and forced their culture on Korea during that time - as a result, only karate, judo, and kendo were allowed. After liberation, many different martial arts schools opened under Korean masters, who mostly had studied martial arts in the universities, where they of course had only taught Japanese systems.

Hence, it's not uncommon to find Japanese gi's or class structure or even forms in Korean martial arts. TKD, when it was still divided in different kwans, used whatever forms the masters originally learned, until TKD was formed and standardized sets were created. Tang Soo Do uses Pyung Ahns (Heian/Pinan), Bassai, Ro Hai, Jinto, Kong Sang Koon, etc etc.

So technically, if you find a TKD school that does Japanese forms, that's actually authetic KMA, since that's what TKD was in it's inception - repackaged Japanese martial arts. It has long since evolved, so what you saw COULD be considered truly traditional KMA.

As for the grandmaster = 7th dan and master = 9th dan, dunno what's goin on there.

Also, FYI, a "McDojo" is a school that has questionable business practices, i.e. shady contracts, black belt clubs with extravagant fees, birthday parties, sleep overs, basically anything to rake in the money.

A school can be a McDojo and still teach good martial arts. If what a school is teaching is crap, then that's considered "Bullshido." You can have schools that aren't mcdojos that teach bullshido.

Preferably, you want to avoid both, definitely avoid the bullshido. Give us the website and contact for the school, we can maybe tell you if it's really mcdojo from their website. To guage bullshido, you have to watch a class.

Unfortunately, the majority of KMA schools out there are both mcdojo and bullshido.

**Partezan** · Posted On: 8/04/2007 11:53pm

I wouldnt be suprized if they did teach in Japanese, TKD refinement came mostly from shotokan karate and alot of its techniques, movenments and forms are from shotokan, i think when general Choi, who refined TKD to what it is today studyed alof of shotokan and kung fu and took alot from them

Anyway, as for your question of if it is a McDojo or not, well, i dislike most TKD schools, there are only a handfull of "good" schools left and most of those schools are not pure TKD anyway, its basicaly a teacher who studyed TKD for a long time then studied some other arts and merged them together into a non sport orientated art which even more closeely resembles karate

All the TKD schools I have been too so far told me that i could only study there and i could not do any other martial arts, its because its so "Olympic/sport" minded that they dont want you to be a good fighter, they just want you to be a good.... TKD guy (not sure what you call people who study TKD) so you can win competitions, and thats fine if thats what you want to do, im sure it would be great to go into the Olympics and compete there and i guess thats why alot of people are drawn to TKD, but i dont like it

**AndyS** · Posted On: 8/05/2007 2:55am

I think that answer for dan problem is simply: some other organisation gives the dan-grades, not the 7.dan grandmaster.

Originally 7.dan grandmaster was a teacher of the master whos dan-rank was lower than 7.dan. Later the master graduated 9.dan by organisation but the grandmaster didnt got higher ranks. Reasons for this can be numerous.

Now the master is 9.dan and the grandmaster 7.dan, but the master feels still that the grandmaster is his teacher.

**WhenTKDStrikes!** · Posted On: 8/05/2007 10:34am

Originally Posted by kajunboy89

I recently went watch a "TKD" class that my friend is in. When i walked in I was confused with their short cut gi that they all wore. I sat down and watched for a bit, then realized that all of the commands were in Japanese! All of their forms are Japanese! I talked to the sensei after class and he told me that their art was authenticly Korean. He told me about his master who was a 9th dan and their grandmaster was a 7th dan. I thought that you couldnt get a higher rank than your instructor? I'm somewhat new to the arts and my friend and my parents are pushing me to go here, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME THIS SEEMS LIKE A MCDOJO!

I dont understand why everyone is saying its pkay for TKD to be taight in Japanese. Something really wring is going on there. NO TKD SCHOOL TEACHES WITH JAPANESE WORDS! Koreans are really ethnocentric just like the Japanese and they are very proud of being liberated from Japan and made their Martial Arts koreanized and would never use Japanese words for commands ever! The whole gi thing is weird too.
Some Korean schools do use robe style dobaks that look just like a gi or are actually the same thing but noe one has short cuts. Whats a short cut a short sleeve?

The forms are Korean forms and there are 2 types of Taekwondo federations that both have their own forms. Some of the old old old forms were Japanese forms but they changed them.

The highest dan in Taekwondo is 9th degree. That is grandmaster level no one is a 7th level grandmaster. 7th is still considered master I think the teacher wasnt thinking straight and probably mixed it up maybe?

**fightin Penguin** · Posted On: 8/06/2007 1:25am

Or maybe the 7 dan grandmaster retired at 7 dan?

**MAOakley** · Posted On: 8/07/2007 11:19pm

This is somewhat related.....

When I started training in 1992, I started hearing about traditional TKD forms that came from the days of the Sul(am I thinking of the right name here?) kingdom, which were very similar to Shotokan in being very "tiger based" with low stances and very high power.

It also seems that I ran across a video series of the poomse.....but I can't remember from where or what.

I also heard rumors that these are the basis for the ITF forms with the Sin wave flow being a more recent spin on some of the basic techniques that were taught.

This seems that it would be Korean owned, but Japanese influenced...does anyone know of these?