Working knife defense on the ground

**ffsparky26** · Posted On: 9/08/2007 9:03pm

My experience has been similar to RedElvis. Occasionally we will spar and someone will have a trainer stashed on them. They normally pull it when we are clenched and you never notice it untill several stabs.

This also matches up to accounts I have herd from folks who have been stabbed in fights.

Open guard and kick off is what I have found to work in the ground and knife situation. With your legs tied up in close guard it seems like it takes to long to get away and on your feet.

And when we work knife defense on the ground thats ususally what we do, get away, Occasionally if you are in the dominant position and the guy with the knife is first trying to pull it you can Kimura it when he goes to pull it. But you have to catch him going for the knife.

When we work our weapons drills like mentioned above we try to "Que off the triangle.". The idea is anytime somone goes for a weapon there elbow makes a triangle. You can use that to pin a hand and foul the draw, then go for a kimura. It works best with somone going for a gun on the ground but we have had a degree of success with knifes.

Who would have thought MMA would have application to self defense? :laughing5

**JohnR** · Posted On: 10/25/2007 9:25am

This is an excellent topic and I like the feedback from everyone. As a police officer and a person who practices and rolls about 4x a week in bjj I think this is well worth looking into. If there are any police officers and SWAT officers or anyone with with this type of experience out there I am looking for the same type of discussion ref handguns and long guns from the ground. Bad guy on top or the bottom.

**Dirty Rooster** · Posted On: 10/27/2007 3:46am

Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw

...When he reached with the same side arm, he had to bend his arm back, into the approximate position of a kimura. From here, it was fairly easy to secure the lock and finish before he could retract the weapon. Even when he grabbed the knife, there wasn't much he could do once the arm was controlled.

This is the bit I'm confused about Claw, in this specific situation how did you manage to control his arm which was reaching back for the knife? Did you already have some kind of grip on it? What was his other arm doing? Where was his head ... up or down or in your chest?
After getting the knife into his hand, did he then try to raise it up for downward stabs? You mentioned he was using a blade-down icepick type grip yes? Why did he not just cut your hip/thigh every time before any other attacks ... it looks like the closest target in my imagining of this position.

Hey, before trying to video it, let's just have a couple of pics of non-knifey people in this position. Must be thousands on t'int'net.

Anyway, I'm distracting you from my first real question : how did you get control of his knife-reaching-arm in the first place?

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 10/29/2007 3:02pm

Originally Posted by Dirty Rooster

This is the bit I'm confused about Claw, in this specific situation how did you manage to control his arm which was reaching back for the knife? Did you already have some kind of grip on it? What was his other arm doing? Where was his head ... up or down or in your chest?
After getting the knife into his hand, did he then try to raise it up for downward stabs? You mentioned he was using a blade-down icepick type grip yes? Why did he not just cut your hip/thigh every time before any other attacks ... it looks like the closest target in my imagining of this position.

Hey, before trying to video it, let's just have a couple of pics of non-knifey people in this position. Must be thousands on t'int'net.

Anyway, I'm distracting you from my first real question : how did you get control of his knife-reaching-arm in the first place?

Typically, when reaching back to draw a weapon, your arm will bend at an angle that says "insert kimura here". You clamp down on the wrist and immediately put the other arm in position. Typically however, all it takes to stop this is to make space with the non-drawing arm.

**krazy kaju** · Posted On: 10/29/2007 6:42pm

I think we need a "BJJ vs. Karate in T3H STR33T W/ KNIVES!" thread.

Which would win?

The chambered punches are A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!

(lol)

**Heffy** · Posted On: 10/30/2007 7:17am

I think the majority of the time, both people will die.

It's pretty common in knife fighting for both fighters to get knifed. Especially untrained ones. Usually they just fake each other out at first, and then when one person commits and goes for it, both people end up with a knife stuck in them.

**Dirty Rooster** · Posted On: 10/30/2007 1:11pm

Originally Posted by Heffy

I think the majority of the time, both people will die.

It's pretty common in knife fighting for both fighters to get knifed. Especially untrained ones. Usually they just fake each other out at first, and then when one person commits and goes for it, both people end up with a knife stuck in them.

But they don't both have a knife in this thread, so your comment seems immaterial.
Unless you mean the guy with the knife stabs the guy on the ground and is suddenly overcome with awful remorse ... and also dies.