232721 Bullies, 3242 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 20 of 27
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 12 3 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Red Elvis is offline
    Red Elvis's Avatar

    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Soviet State Of Kalifornia
    Posts
    2,201

    Posted On:
    8/03/2007 8:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My .02 for what it's worth. If you can control the knife from a dominant position on the ground you are in a much better position than if you are in an inferior position. In this case, I would say either player in the guard position is equally fucked.

    One thing to mention about these scenarios is that MOST of the time you won't know the guy even has a knife until it's too late. Let's look at the guard for a second. If my opponent has me in the guard his goal is to keep me tight with head control so he can work technique and my goal is to posture up and pass. However, if I have a knife accessible I’d have no problem with hugging close to him while retrieving and utilizing my weapon. Most likely, by the time he realizes what the deal is he has numerous cuts and he is in a bad spot. Now, if I have him in the guard and he brandishes a knife (providing I even see it) my goal is to create space and get the **** up and out. Wrestling for knife control isn’t on my list of **** to do. I’d rather have a dominant position that allows control, a possible disarm or a quick way out so my tai flee can work.

    Let me recount a funny story that actually involves Poidog and myself. We’re stick fighting in the park going light with rattan. Poidog hits me pretty good in the leg and I close to a clinch. Simultaneously while he throws me to the ground (fucking hard) I have pulled my hidden knife and stabbed him repeatedly in the back and neck. We end up on the ground rolling a bit where I continue to stab him until the other guys stop the fight. At that point he realizes I have stabbed him probably 20-30 times and we both get a good laugh. He actually thought I was hitting him with pansy punches or trying some kind of finger poke. Point is, he didn’t know the knife was there and would have been very very dead. I still had a fucking knot the size of a golf ball on my leg though which is why I clinched in the first place.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  2. HtownBudokan is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8

    Posted On:
    8/04/2007 7:55am


     Style: Boxing, Kendo, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If your assailant really knows what he's doing with that knife then you'll never see it, much less have a chance to go to the ground with it. The knife in general is meant to be a concealed weapon, so what he'll generally do is sneak up behind you and sever your jugular or your subclavian artery. Even if he does decide to take you head-on then he will keep his knife concealed until he's acouple feet away from you, then before you have a time to react he'll have carved a smiley-face into your neck. Your best bet in a knife fight is to hope that your assailant has no idea what he's doing.
  3. poidog is offline
    poidog's Avatar

    Competition Team Tag...yes?

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sanctum Sanctorum, SoCal
    Posts
    1,383

    Posted On:
    8/04/2007 3:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, DBMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis
    Let me recount a funny story that actually involves Poidog and myself. We’re stick fighting in the park going light with rattan. Poidog hits me pretty good in the leg and I close to a clinch. Simultaneously while he throws me to the ground (fucking hard) I have pulled my hidden knife and stabbed him repeatedly in the back and neck. We end up on the ground rolling a bit where I continue to stab him until the other guys stop the fight. At that point he realizes I have stabbed him probably 20-30 times and we both get a good laugh. He actually thought I was hitting him with pansy punches or trying some kind of finger poke. Point is, he didn’t know the knife was there and would have been very very dead. I still had a fucking knot the size of a golf ball on my leg though which is why I clinched in the first place.
    Holy damn, that's right!! I had forgotten. RE killed me so dead OJ Simpson would've given him props!!
    Kuha'o - Kela - Koa
  4. Red Elvis is offline
    Red Elvis's Avatar

    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Soviet State Of Kalifornia
    Posts
    2,201

    Posted On:
    8/04/2007 11:34pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PoiDog
    Holy damn, that's right!! I had forgotten. RE killed me so dead OJ Simpson would've given him props!!
    Only 'cause it came out of left field and you weren't thinking "knife". (If you want to get technical, i.e. the sticks representing bolos, I would have lost my leg and the game would have been over.) Still, it's always good to add some of that training to the mix to keep things in perspective. Perspective being, knife fighting is no bueno.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  5. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,428

    Posted On:
    8/05/2007 3:05am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In larry's gym we often do "knife tusseling", where we start out in greco type control positions with knives, and wrestling for position until he calls out a signal and we both attempt to deploy our knives and go for the kill shot.

    Things I noticed on the ground

    1) closed guard never works, ever ever ever when the other guy has a knife. Posture up, femoral, or bury your forehead and work the body result in quick kills even against very technical grapplers. Butterfly guard or some variation therof has yeilded the best results so far, particularly if you're working a scenario where you hold him down and try to call for help.

    2) for the clinch, you need your head used as a fulcrum at all times until you can snake behind the tricep and force a takedown. If he has any room at all to flex his elbow, you're more or less dead.

    3) The filipino dirty boxing stuff has a lot of material very similar to STAB, including variations for when you both have blades.
  6. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
    TheMightyMcClaw's Avatar

    MADE OF STEEL!

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    3,446

    Posted On:
    8/18/2007 3:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    In larry's gym we often do "knife tusseling", where we start out in greco type control positions with knives, and wrestling for position until he calls out a signal and we both attempt to deploy our knives and go for the kill shot.

    Things I noticed on the ground

    1) closed guard never works, ever ever ever when the other guy has a knife. Posture up, femoral, or bury your forehead and work the body result in quick kills even against very technical grapplers. Butterfly guard or some variation therof has yeilded the best results so far, particularly if you're working a scenario where you hold him down and try to call for help.

    2) for the clinch, you need your head used as a fulcrum at all times until you can snake behind the tricep and force a takedown. If he has any room at all to flex his elbow, you're more or less dead.

    3) The filipino dirty boxing stuff has a lot of material very similar to STAB, including variations for when you both have blades.
    Interesting. I found the closed guard to be a fairly effective position in my training session. However, my training partner had no knife training, and that may have been part of it.
  7. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,428

    Posted On:
    8/18/2007 4:27pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Interesting. I found the closed guard to be a fairly effective position in my training session. However, my training partner had no knife training, and that may have been part of it.

    Untrained people tend to attack higher on the body, which is generally easier to defend on the ground. Trying to defend the femoral with closed guard is pretty difficult.
  8. dingirfecho is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    82

    Posted On:
    8/28/2007 4:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kali/Box/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PoiDog
    I've trained the situation fairly extensively, though usually from the other side. I've been the guest knifer at 2 of Marc Denny's "Die Less Often" seminars, one which was a joint seminar with Gabe Suarez. I would hold that going to the ground before you have secured control of the knife/arm puts you at a TREMENDOUS disadvantage that is tantamount to suicide.

    A sharp knife does not need a lot of pressure to inflict greivous wounds. At that range, the knife is a far more dangerous weapon than a firearm, IMO. While a bullet can cause significant damage, a well executed knife cut can literally eviscerate a victim. In the seminars, while my victims were struggling to pull guard/establish position/complete a submission, I was happily slicing and dicing away across spines, through kidneys, across necks, into armpits, into 'taints' and into/through/across vital targets.

    Please do not think I'm am poo-pooing your attempts at figuring things out for yourself. I am, in fact, applauding you for conducting your own research into the arena. But grappling against an opponent who truly understands the tactics behind a knife assault is quite different than rolling with a buddy who has a knife tucked. I may also be misunderstanding your descriptions of what was happening.

    If you would be so kind, please elaborate on the situations you briefly described, I still don't fully understand your positions and transitions in relation to his. Video, of course, would help, but maybe a more detailed explanation would clear things up for me. Thanks in advance.

    Aloha, Poi
    THIS THIS THIS.
    If someone has the knife already in their hands, I never could make it work so I won´t get cut. Bear in mind that a cut to the femoral, or to the privates, it´s not only painful but it makes you lose blood in seconds. Besides, a really sharp knife doesn´t need a lot of pressure, and speaking from experience, you don´t want to compress the arm of someone who has a knife very close to your body. I have some cuts made with a wooden training knife (plus the splinters, which suck) from when I tried to do a Kimura on a training partner.
    If he has not drawn the knife, going full bore is the only way I found that you could prevent. Still, as it has been pointed out, a knife can easily change hands.
    I´ve still to train extensively on ground + knife, so don´t take this too seriously (we train it about twice every month) but my teacher´s line is what Poidog once said "if you grapple with a knife, be the one with the knife". Else, Nike-Fu all the way
  9. Plasma is online now
    Plasma's Avatar

    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,127

    Posted On:
    8/28/2007 8:27pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Interesting. I found the closed guard to be a fairly effective position in my training session. However, my training partner had no knife training, and that may have been part of it.


    I agree with self critical. I never had ANY success with closed guard. I've had more success with open guard, push them away and get back up to your feet.
  10. Heffy is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    169

    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 9:02am


     Style: Almost Everything.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We practice knife defenses from the ground.

    We also do drills where we start with eyes-closed sitting down, the instructor puts a knife somewhere around us, and then we go. First person cut loses. It is a very good way to train with knives on the ground.
    I like how when you go, neither of you knows where the knife is, so you have to control the other person for a second while you find the knife. Then you have to get to it and cut your partner.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 12 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.